FDXLAG

I am nicely chilled thank you. I think you missed the cranky posts.

Must be alot of good reasons to oppose a single payscale, but QOL is not one of them.

BrownBusDriver

UPS has one rate, which at contract signing was 1 dollar less than your current contract. The junior ac is MD11 ANC. The DC8 was rather senior, but the 747-400 ANC is not really that junior overall. On the other hand, if the 747 was in SDF it would be super senior.

Seniority here is all about domiciles, not aircraft types.

On the other hand, if FedEx had not made your openers public last contract, you would have higher pay. UPS openers to us were higher than what you went public with back in Dec 2005.....and you settled for $1 higher than us.

OKLATEX

Ok. Normally people bid for money, type of airplane, type of flying or seniority. There are probably other reasons, but those are the basics. So, if you take one out, I am curious on how it changes things, if it does.

As far as being Junior. I understand what you were saying. But being junior isn't always a choice. Sometimes it is what happens when the music stops. As far as UPS goes, if you are on the 747 and can't hold anything else, and don't like international flying then that would be a big hit on QOL. Possibly a bigger hit than being on the panel here on the 727. That is totally dependant on personal opinion of course.

As far as being a typical pay scale. CAL has Widebody, Large and Small Narrow body. Really comes down to how you want to cut the pie. In our case, you could say it is a plus the Airbus is with the MD, because if we broke it down by airplane, they would be paid less. The way we have it, saves the company a little on training probably, and more people are on the top pay scale. Don't forget that the bus replaced 727s for the most part, so a bunch of people have gotten widebody pay that wouldn't have had we replaced 727s with some other narrowbody.

I see the point of a pay scale for each type, I see grouping them like we do, and tried to do on the contract. I am fairly comfortable with it. I just would like to know the seniority splits on fleets at UPS. It is different to me, and I am just curious about it.

OKLATEX

That more answers my question, so what are the junior bases and what type of flying are they doing.

FDXLAG

I am not so sure the bus was a 72 replacement I think more and bigger ACFT were required for growth.

I hope the MEC tells us their thinking prior to contract 20XX. I understand the gold team/brown team (no offense intended UPS) pay plan. The gold team has more than 50% of the votes; no doubt one of the reasons we were so willing to put the 75 on the brown team.

There is not a right answer, all that is required is 50% + 1. I do think any argument you can make for 2 or 3 payscales can be made more logically for acft specific payscales.

Your 1st post where you basically said that UPS guys were flying the aircraft they wanted and that cant be good for quality of life, struck me as funny.

purpledog

Single payscale, I'm all in. I'd be flying a NB out of my hometown instead of dealing with the crappy bus schedules. Career earnings would be higher as well. If one applies UPS' payscale to to your earnings here, you would see that you would've made more based on our current contracts. What's the big problem again? More money, better QOL, not having to go to training every couple of years to make a couple more dollars....

BrownBusDriver

It is really harder to answer that question now. The number of over 60 guys that the company had carried in excess as FE on the DC8 for a number of years, the sudden retirement of the DC8 left 270 guys doing nothing for much of a year, then the furlough. Many have been pushed or forced to bid vacancies where I think they probably would not have. Right now ANC MD11 is still very junior, ONT has become more junior over the last 2 years for some reason. The real funny thing is SDF has become much more senior, because most of the movement to ANC came from SDF.

Because of the way the company did the vacancies in ANC on the 747, alot of the over 60 were forced up there to re-upgrade to Cpt or FO because of the number of positions open. So the 747 Cpt and FO are very senior for the top half and then very junior.

The RIF bid again screwed up stuff, because the way it was done either you could chase your seat system wide or maintain domicle. It mostly affected the A300 SDF so if you wanted to maintain Cpt, it ended up bumping the most junior Cpt system wide, which was ANC MD11 90+ percent of the time. A couple of guys got a MIA slot on the 757 or ONT on the 757. Until we have a real vacancy bid, seniority won't mean much.

Basically, it has all been crap for foks holding what they want by seniority.

The single pay scale has not been much of a player here in these changes, though I will say after 15 years here, I do like it.

MIA - 757 mostly SA with some domestic mixed in
ONT - 757 PAC and domestic
ANC - PAC and trunk routes between domiciles

Funny thing, over the last 3 years, go to ONT and hardly a 757 or 767 in sight, mostly MDs.

Busdrivr

Question. FDXLAG what airplane do you fly? My guess would be either the 727 or 757. Another question. Are so old that you will never make it to a wide-body seat? Why do you not see that wide-body pilots are responsible for bringing more revenue to the company than an ATR pilot? Should you get paid the same as them?
Another poster said wide-body pilots are in the majority. That is correct. Get used to it.

MaydayMark

What? Your over 60 dudes had to bid for an actual vacancy to bid back to being a real pilot again? I wish we had done that instead of allowing them to go anywhere they wanted ... we got screwed BIG TIME by those selfish guys. I hope the junior guys remember that this contract!

FDXLAG

Must be carefull do not want boxdawg to accuse me of being cranky when replying to a cranky post.

Why yes I am a 727 FO. I had to look at my avatar to make sure it was still posted. I could hold a WB seat, what does that have to do with anything. I am the one that said WB pilots are the majority, it is in the post you quoted, I am not sure why I should get used to it? What does that mean, should NB pilots only get half a vote?

I can understand why you are touchy on the subject because when you look at the fleet status:

777F - 4
MD-11 - 59
MD-10-30 -16
MD-10-10 - 58
DC-10 - 1
AIRBUS - 127
757 - 20
727 - 77

So can we say Airbus pilots are overpaid with busdrivr logic or would we have to say MD-11 pilots are underpaid?

This time read my post instead of reacting like a moron. I simply said we should give up nothing else to get a 777 pay rate. We have already given up too much. Economically more pilots are financialy better off when you have a single payscale. I understand the reasons for multiple pay scales, if those were our goal we should be striving for a seperate payrate per ACFT. And QOL is not a good argument against a single payscale.

Now would you like to debate anything I said or do you want to throw up another strawman. Either option is OK by me because I am chillin (How is that boxdawg?).