OKLATEX

Forgive me, but I really don't know much about pay at UPS except the one payscale. I came from the pax side, and obviously more familar/comfortable with it. I would think one reason they have it is to save training cost, reduce people going after pay. I have heard that the most senior plane there was the 727 (assume it is now the bus or 75) and the most junior being the 747.

Just looking at it from the outside, I would think it would take a hit on your quality of life, as there would be little movement. Is that true? I know retirements would make movement, and guys looking for a change would too, but it seems like it would be slow. Is that true, or is there something I am missing.

I just don't see a reason why I would want us to switch, if that ever became an option. Not knocking the UPS pay in anyway, just a lack of knowledge on my part.

FDXLAG

Seems to me there would be more QOL choices if the senior airplane there is the JR airplane here. They obviously fly the seat they want to fly and, in the end, being junior is a choice probably holds more truth at a single payscale airline.

1 payscale makes sense, 9 payscales makes sense. What does not make sense is our system of 2 payscales. It allows the company to force WB payscale pilots into a NB payscale.

So tell me why you think it is bad for the company to save money on training costs?

Busdrivr

What? Can you maybe rephrase your question to make it understandable.

RedeyeAV8r

First off it isn't a Bad thing at all for the company to save money on Training costs, as long as it doesn't negatively affect us. Looking at how MGT has handled the Bids of the last 2 1/2 years, it appears they don't seem to care much about training costs.

Secondly, we currently have 3 category of AC for pay purposes: NB, WB and 380. (I know I know we don't have 380's coming but it is in the contract). Hopefully that will continue from the 777 26K arbitration or maybe we will get a 4th category out of it. (Fingers crossed)

I agree with you, in my opinion we should have A/C specific rates.
727
757
A-300/310
MD-10
MD-11
777
A380.

If we get 767's or 747's, 787 or even A-330f's they should pay differently too. (again just my opinion)

Historically Pay rates were always based on the revenue generated (or potential) from each type of Airframe. (at least at most other Properties
The 777 will generate more Revenue than the MD-11 and should pay more than the MD-11. The MD-11 generates more than the A300 and should pay more and down the line.
Having a single Pay scale might sound like a good idea but in actually isn't in our best interest.

as a side note I think we got snookered by agreeing to NB rates for the 757
(for reasons stated above)
as a trade for our A380 book rates. But that is 20/20 hindsight since we had no idea MGT was going to cancel the orders. I also wish our 26K language was more tight but that is another story.

OKLATEX

I really have no idea what you just said except for that last sentence.

I have no problem with a company wanting to save money on training cost. I want this company to be as profitable as it can be. I want to have a long, stable career. That is why I came here.

OKLATEX

This I understand and I agree with.

FDXLAG

I guess I will go slow for oklatex.

You are the one that says that the 727 at ups was senior and then concluded that somehow hurt QOL. Care to explain?

Would you like me to splain what I mean by being Jr is a choice?

We do not have a typical airline payscale. Currently,(and for the foreseeable future) our pilots receive either WB pay or NB pay. I think we should have a payscale for every airframe or one payscale. The company has replaced some WBs with NBs. Eventually we will have an excess bid off the Bus some pilots will be forced onto the 757.
I got the impression from your post that somehow you thought saving money on training was bad for the pilots. If not, sorry you took offense.

Hope that helps.

FDXLAG

Maybe oklatex can explain the question to you.

FDXLAG

I hope we win the arrbitration, if not I hope we dont give anything up for a seperate 777 payscale with the next contract.

I also wish the 4A2b language was more tight but that is another story too.

BoxDawg

Hey FDXLAG, are you getting cranky again? Chill out man.