Posting 09-01 Practice Bid...
04-10-2009, 05:49 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
Gotta royally disagree with you there.
You can't advocate (with any reason/rationality, anyway) a position that supports kicking guys out of a seat anytime there's a contractual change (good or bad) to that seat in the future.
You bid a seat based on one thing: the current contractual provisions for that seat at the time you bid it.
Example, right now the 777 pays the same as the A300, and pilots have bid it. If at some point in the future, the 777 pay rate is increased, say to A380 pay, either by an LOA or the next contract, do you think you can say "OK, kick everyone out of it and re-run the bid now that it's better."
Example, when our last contract passed, it was pretty clear most of the pay benefits (grid penalties) in it were designed to benefit long haul (MD-11 +) flying. Do you think guys on the A300 and 727 had a right to say "Ohh, well I would have bid it if I had known that's where the improvements were going to be! Kick those guys out!"? I don't.
Same goes for HKG. The people that bid it, CA and FO, did so under the contract and LOA that were in place at the time. If there are improvements, via another LOA and/or a new contract in 2010 to the FDA, you can't support booting out existing pilots just so other people can take their slots under new game rules. Same goes for if things get worse in a particular seat; you can't say "I didn't know it was going to get worse, excess me out of here!"
You can't advocate (with any reason/rationality, anyway) a position that supports kicking guys out of a seat anytime there's a contractual change (good or bad) to that seat in the future.
You bid a seat based on one thing: the current contractual provisions for that seat at the time you bid it.
Example, right now the 777 pays the same as the A300, and pilots have bid it. If at some point in the future, the 777 pay rate is increased, say to A380 pay, either by an LOA or the next contract, do you think you can say "OK, kick everyone out of it and re-run the bid now that it's better."
Example, when our last contract passed, it was pretty clear most of the pay benefits (grid penalties) in it were designed to benefit long haul (MD-11 +) flying. Do you think guys on the A300 and 727 had a right to say "Ohh, well I would have bid it if I had known that's where the improvements were going to be! Kick those guys out!"? I don't.
Same goes for HKG. The people that bid it, CA and FO, did so under the contract and LOA that were in place at the time. If there are improvements, via another LOA and/or a new contract in 2010 to the FDA, you can't support booting out existing pilots just so other people can take their slots under new game rules. Same goes for if things get worse in a particular seat; you can't say "I didn't know it was going to get worse, excess me out of here!"
04-10-2009, 06:24 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
04-10-2009, 07:12 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Raise your hand if you were forced to bid HKG
I see so the seats are filled for peanuts. But the guys who wanted to go but thought it was a rip off should now be forced to pay for the improvements. Yeah I got mine that is the problem.
How much should I pay to make your Jr seat better?
That is funny, being told I am a pull up the rope guy by someone who thinks we should fly all the make up we can while the getting is good.
How much should I pay to make your Jr seat better?
That is funny, being told I am a pull up the rope guy by someone who thinks we should fly all the make up we can while the getting is good.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 04-10-2009 at 07:27 PM.
04-10-2009, 11:24 PM
#35
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: "Part of the problem." : JL
Posts: 1,054
We knew the job when we took it.
Last edited by skypine27; 04-10-2009 at 11:53 PM.
04-11-2009, 03:52 AM
#36
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 617
Careful, they will give you DW's job. (Best we can do, right thing to do, etc.)
04-11-2009, 05:14 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
After the fund is full (and most of the geezers have "timed out") the pay raise could be rinstated.
But as an aside, please reread my post. I didn't say don't make HKG better.
04-11-2009, 07:18 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: Who knows...waiting for a bid
Posts: 379
I said those exact words to DW during the hub turn meeting before LOA 1. I asked him if we honestly thought we were going to spend negotiating $$ on some 200 pilots when there is a majority of 4800+ to look out for.
Do I think those guys deserve better, absolutely...I would have gone if the package was reasonable, but I voted no, and won't bid it.
As for a bump and flush provision out of FDA's, that is a bad thing to start. If that happens, that means they will be able to junior man any seat and send folks too.
Do I think those guys deserve better, absolutely...I would have gone if the package was reasonable, but I voted no, and won't bid it.
As for a bump and flush provision out of FDA's, that is a bad thing to start. If that happens, that means they will be able to junior man any seat and send folks too.
04-11-2009, 07:27 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
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