300ER Hauler

Ah, the key point! Let's wait until the company if fully under water before we take concessions. They bled billions because you guys were highly paid and the "economic conditions" of that time didn't support it. Sounds like management is the way to go. UPS may be trying to shore things up in anticipation of further economic downturn while attempting to keep the pilots on board ... like I said ... "maybe."

300ER Hauler

The company has apparently come asking for direct pay freezes and pension freezes as it has done company wide with non-union employees. As far as the charter ops, I don't know enough to speak on this. My assumption is that the margins are thin and that the cycles and wear and tear on the airplanes are worth the contracts offered. How profitable are some of these contracts, does anyone know?

757upspilot

I see, so the furlough mitigation is really a request for concessions on the contract.

They drag their feet on settleing any and all contract negotiations.
They continuously try and ignore what they have agreed to in the contract.
They continuously attempt to undermine the IPA.

So the answer is NO.

300ER Hauler

My stance is stay the course with the contract and give nothing. If the company has made it's mind up to furlough, it is going to no matter what we do on our end. My earlier posts were to generate discussion concerning "what if" and the protection of the 300 (at what cost would we as a collective group be willing to give if it truly came down to that). Guys jumped all over me for bringing out an unpopular viewpoint and about supporting the company prior red ink being shown. The overall group seems to think give nothing contractually, I am in support the majority. Let's hope for the best for our 300.

MoosePileit

UPS is not an airline in terms of red ink. They have a Part 121 airline and we talk about it on a forum called APC- but it's a bit bigger than that when it's time to talk turkey- UPS First Quarter 2009 Earnings Webcast Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:30 AM ET.

The airline may still bring a huge percent of UPS profit. Total profit may be down. The airline may not bring in enough to be a golden goose w/ an un-attacked contract. We may use too much lift on less profitable types of cargo- still might not make them happy.

Spreading the pain is not a good idea without a better context. Giving 1/6th the amount of stock payout dividend as the amount of UPS stock bought back last year says more than "hey, give us 54 million or we take 300 pilot jobs".

'Tcha. Settle the grievances, stick to the contract. Try that for a while, as in until 2012. OR- Soon it'll be hey, we gave up 10% in management so you guys give up 29% of your contract.... Why even think of snap-back?


Not sure about the big finish there 300ER- "Let's HOPE for the best for OUR 300." (my emphasis). This is a test, you don't HOPE you do well.

UPSFO4LIFE

UPS CEO was in Miami yesterday. Said things going well even though volume is down. UPS will be a much stronger company when economy does come around. He was then off to the VIlle to meet with Ledpipes. Probably to sign off on the furlough.

de727ups

"I am sorry you feel that way. So much for an open forum. Too bad, I am sure we would get along. Oh yeah, I have managers that are friends too. We can't have that"

and

"I wonder how many of the ACPs have been dispatched to internet forums to convince us we need to take paycuts because our profit dwindled down to just 3 billion dollars.

they are so extreme it's easy to pick out.

They probably log everyone of their anti-IPA post the same way an hourly punches in the time card for the boss."

I would like to suggest that this forum is open to all who wish to post here in a respectable manner. There seem to be some folks who think opinions from UPS management shouldn't be heard at this forum. As part of the site leadership at APC, I can tell you that is simply wrong and incorrect. Everyone can post here as long as they post within the confines of TOS. As an IPA member, I'm embarrased at the content of some IPA'ers at this forum. If you can't dialogue in a respectable manner here, you'd be better off taking it somewhere else. Dot. Period.

I'm an IPA guy through and through. I've been here since 90 and I'm proud of what the IPA has done and become. I'm an active union volunteer. And I have to say that some of the BS that I see at this site makes my head spin and sometimes make me less than....empathic (yeah, look it up), to the UPS haters...

I take great hope in knowing that none of the really junior guys I've actually met have the attitude that the typical UPS haters here show. That allows me to form an opinion outside this forum, which I hope all IPA'ers are actively trying to do.

It's pretty hard to deny that there are some good folks in the ONT APC ranks and some good management folks in the training dept.

FR8TFLYER

I have been here just over 2 years and I can tell you the junior folks are rapidly becoming bitter/hateful or whatever term you would like to use. When I first got here I wondered why some of the older guys were so bitter, now I know.

The management here will go to great lengths to screw the pilot group. Look at the contract, they violate it with every bid-pack. Scheduling will outright lie to you. Do I need to go on? The IPA has given them numerous ways to save $ over the years and they balk at it. They are not interested in our ideas, they will do it their way regardless of the cost.

This impending furlough is just another example. There are ways to avoid this impending debacle if they want to, but I honestly think they will furlough regardless of the financial implications. Read another thread, they are denying long term leaves of absences, they know we are not that over-staffed.

The price the company will pay if they furlough, will be years and years of pay-backs by caused by the hate and discontent. Can't say as I blame anyone for that!

SLPII

Could not have said it better myself.

say that again

In the past, I might have agreed with your post. Your logic is a bit flawed however when you take into consideration that the CEO has not shared the pain that other non-union groups have endured. Not only has he not endured a pay cut or benefit freeze, he actually got a very hefty pay raise. This demonstrates poor leadership at best but in any case, not a smart move in this circumstance. If you think the pilot group is bitter, imagine how the CEO's pay raise sits with other non-union employee groups. Talk about discontent! Secondly, as mentioned earlier by others in this thread, while the IPA was forced to wait for the contract amendable date and then negotiate for years to get the same or less pay raise that non union employees got without the wait only serves to cement the notion that IPA pilots are not welcome or appreciated around here. I came here 21 years ago with strong anti-union beliefs. UPS changed all of that, rather quickly I might add.