Archie Bunker

No, we're not...nor should we be willing to take a paycut or open up the contract when the company is making billions in profit per year.

Don't even go there man...you don't know what you're talking about.

I was a Delta pilot during that timeframe, and actually lived through the contract negotiations, furloughs, paycuts, pension dump, and abrogation of the contract. If Delta couldn't afford to pay us what they were back then, they wouldn't have signed the contract. That all happened before 9-11 and the economic downturn. We didn't take our horrendous paycuts at Delta until December 2004, after Delta had been bleeding billions of dollars for years. That didn't stop Delta from paying its top executives millions in bonuses and giving former CEO Leo Mullin a suitcase full of cash for his whopping seven years of service, while the pilots saw their pensions flushed down the toilet.

As soon as UPS starts losing money, then we can talk about concessions. Until then, your argument holds no water, and you're sounding more and more like a management plant.

SLPII

I wonder how many of the ACPs have been dispatched to internet forums to convince us we need to take paycuts because our profit dwindled down to just 3 billion dollars.

they are so extreme it's easy to pick out.

They probably log everyone of their anti-IPA post the same way an hourly punches in the time card for the boss.

jungle

I can assure you they aren't too worried about your opinion. I don't see too many proposing pay cuts here, and if they do it is out of sympathy for their fellow pilots. This may be misguided, but I can understand the sentiment.

CactusCrew

I certainly understand their choice to not grow the airline based upon "low margin" flying. But to ignore any opportunities in today's economy seems short-sighted.

And as a strategy, it will "hurt" if they go ahead with a furlough ... some much more than others.

jungle

If they go ahead, and that is a big if, you are still far better off furloughed here than working at numerous other places. Most of us have been there and it isn't pleasant but at least you will have a job worth coming back to in the near future.
Don't give up the ship just yet.

Trash Hauler 1

I have a bit of a unique perspective on the AMC charter business and Salty and I are on the same page w/r/t how this should be shaking out. UPS does not like to commit to a lot of DoD biz for a number of reasons. Principal in this is the ability to sell their share of their CRAF points to other members of their team for cold hard cash. They do tend to cherry pick the quarterlies for volume that can be accommodated within the existing system, eg courier shipments to the Far East, fresh veggies to Japanese commissaries, etc. It is very lucrative for them to operate this way, since we're very light going west from ANC. The other factor that keeps UPS from bidding more AMC contracts is the payment process. The DoD is VERY slow in paying on these contracts. Just ask any POLAR folks from the late 90's. They over-committed to DoD and the slow cash flow almost sunk them. UPS doesn't like the slow payment process.

YMMV

TH1

SLPII

Hey Cactus!! Haven't you heard??? They can't pick up the DoD flying because they are going to furlough pilots!!!

jungle

Sorry, another miss. They have never been big on the DOD flying, the economy is having a far greater effect. Secondly, please refresh my memory on when and how many are going to be furloughed, not possibly furloughed. If you want to continue your bash fest, go ahead, but they aren't in business to make you happy.

CactusCrew

Been there, done that furlough thing already like the "most of us" you mention.

I digress ... But at least AWA was on the verge of bankrupcy when they furloughed. And when ALPA offered a reduced guarantee to save furloughs, managemant actually told them the truth. That they would go ahead and furlough anyway even with concessions.

UPS and truthful negotiations ... ? ... I may be new, but I don't think so !

I hope you are right about coming back in the near future. But something tells me this place has a few other tricks up their sleeve if they pull the trigger on the furlough. Things that would keep folks on the street longer than "near future" recalls. Just my gut ...

Having a job worthwile job to come back to is good. But for many of us, one of the things that made this job "worth coming to" was the security. Which no longer exists for 300 of us.

At least it has been threatened ...

300ER Hauler

I am sorry you feel that way. So much for an open forum. Too bad, I am sure we would get along. Oh yeah, I have managers that are friends too. We can't have that!