300ER Hauler

All this talk it comes down to a business decision. Either the union is going to aid the company in this business decision or the company is going to take it upon itself to protect as it sees fit. The managers took a pay freeze and no 401k for the year ... possibly no manager bonuses either for 09. Is the union going to fall in line???? Unions in the past have run businesses in the ground. Let's not join the list!!!! IPA comes first, but we must question if we are getting the entire picture from the EB ... I bet we are not!!!! I don't want to see anyone on the street! Trust me, I am just asking a sane question ... do we have all the information??? I bet not!!!

congowings

“All this talk it comes down to a business decision. Either the union is going to aid the company in this business decision or the company is going to take it upon itself to protect as it sees fit.” - 300ER Hauler

You’re right, it will be a UPS business decision - and only a UPS decision. This company has rarely been interested in IPA’s input. The IPA has many times tried to put forth cost saving ideas to the company and have been rejected. It is no secret that UPS spends excesses of money needlessly. It is not the IPA’s place to manage UPS’s financial business, nor does UPS desire it. Should each member of this union perform their job in a professional, safe and cost effective manner? I think yes. It is to everyone’s benefit for UPS to stay financially strong. To entertain the idea that UPS is approaching the union for cost savings ideas in order to protect the jobs of pilots is an exercise in delusion. The smoke and mirrors tactic of bringing in emotional responses in order to open up the contract is a very familiar ploy. The old "Not our fault guys, your union let you down".

The manager’s ‘sacrifice’ for the company can be viewed in a different light. Yes, they took a pay freeze – BUT, as per our contract, the pilots are in one too – no raise until January 2010. No matching 401K for the managers at this time – last time I looked the pilots have never even received that benefit. And no bonus – well, someone please tell me if the rumor is true – did they decide to forgo our bonus this year???? (I really don’t know – but shucks, that turkey was a tradition!) As far as the managers are concerned, perhaps their biggest sacrifice has been watching their stock price fall – and fall.

No one wants to see this company furlough a single pilot. But I think it more prudent to put the blame where it belongs and not allow the company the satisfaction of seeing the havoc they are sowing.

CactusCrew

You're joking right ... The IPA run UPS into the ground ?

What unions have run business into the ground in the past ?

How about what managements have run THEIR business into the ground ? Same list as above.

Roberto

Salty,

It looks like to me that the FDX team includes 45 747's from Atlas, Polar, and Northwest. Do you know how much of the $1.4B they got? Also, the list shows our team includes 34 747's from Southern Air and Kalitta, and 17 767's from ABX. Any info on the breakdown there?

Go team!

http://www.dot.gov/ost/oet/craf/TA0608.pdf

fishalaska

..................

fishalaska

(FEDEX POST from another section of APC)
We all need to understand 4A2B is ALL ABOUT TURNING UP THE OPTIMIZER and LOWERING OUR PAY. It is a precise attack on our CBA under the guise of a prevention of furlough.
__________________

To start: I am a bottom 300 UPS furlough fodder:

This is a quote from one of the FedEx bubbas. Their contract allowed reductions in guarantee for furlough prevention and the company pounced upon it making individual fleets reserve guarantee as low as possible. If I understand it correctly they wanted FULL reserve days for less money instead of giving back days at least to the guys. I see many 747-400 schedules have a 14+24 scheduled duty period solely because the contract says they can make 14+30 extendable to 16. This computer optimizer is exactly what is putting me and 299 of my friends on the street. Personally I feel that if we lower the guarantee they will just reap the excess of the lines through optimization making every line exactly what the reduced guarantee becomes. I am proud of the union for proposing options even if these options do not all fit my ideas. WE DO NOT OWE $50 Million dollars if this number was just thrown out to make me feel that my work if solely monetary based. It makes me feel for the first time that I am a contractor instead of an employee. I noticed the Chief Pilot Line did not show any counter offers to include buyouts, medical coverage while on PLOA/MLOA, early retirement incentives, etc. The only comment was our proposals do not cover all costs. An old saying is that a chart can be made to look exactly like the guy paying for the chart wants it to look. I am sure it is possible to make it look like a guy accepting early retirement is actually costing money.

I personally would rather hit the streets than spend the next 10 years getting back to the current contract.

Fish

757upspilot

I will bet that we know what the IPA was told by the UPS managers. Unions don't run companies into the ground , **** poor management run companies into the ground

SaltyDog

What do you mean is the "union going to fall in line"????? You mean concede our contract? Do you mean after they nickel and dime and cheat the contract already? What do you "bet the EB is hiding" ???? I know you are well connected with upper management from your previous posts. You sound like an inside emissary for management. Does your management buds give you all the info and the entire picture? Certain they are not giving you much since you are just another line pilot. Now they may give you info so you can plug for them. Good on you, but I will let the EB do my talking and negotiating.
Many of us in the IPA have offered excellent business decisions over the years to increase customer service, save wasted millions in ops, and guess where that gets UPS? Absolutely no where, management doesn't use our input. Though they will ask, nothing really changes. Money is wasted and customers lost.
Just business and I have learned to accept that as a simple hourly employee, the business culture is not interested in any IPA pilot ideas regarding the management of the airline. Thus, it is their responsibilty.

Roberto,
The January 2009 info:
http://www.dot.gov/ost/oet/craf/pdf/200901memo.pdf

and

http://www.dot.gov/ost/oet/craf/pdf/...allocation.pdf

and here you can see how many FedEX has dropped (significant numbers)
in tails registered.

http://www.dot.gov/ost/oet/craf/pdf/200901faa.pdf

and when they dropped them:

http://www.dot.gov/ost/oet/craf/pdf/200810memo.pdf


Not really, much anecdotal via tracking industry flying. That gives an idea of the scope, but for the financials: Southern Air is a private company purchased by a private equity firm in 2007 (Oak Hill Capital that combined Cargo360 and SAI) and like Kalitta Air, another private company, doesn't report market numbers. Thus, difficult to track. Also, since team leaders have great leeway on who actually flies the volume. i.e. FedEx will get certain trips and can either fly them or sub them out to another team member. UPS does same. Depends on volume, etc whether FedEx or UPS will take the trip. Do know that FedEx builds lines based strictly for DOD charters. They also put lots of the pop ups in OT and let the crews pick them up, They are certainly flying dedicated planes and crews that dwarf UPS particpation.

Archie Bunker

You can't be serious. I find it hard to believe that an IPA member could make such a ludicrous statement on a public message board. Are you sure you don't have a little "M" on your ID card?

Tell you what...I'm willing to give up my 401K match, and all my bonuses for this year too. Also, I'm willing to take a pay freeze until January 2010. I almost forgot...they can keep the turkey too. Oh, that's right....we don't have a 401K match, or bonuses, and my pay won't increase until next January anyways. Thanks for reminding me.

When will the union fall in line? The IPA running UPS into the ground? Did you even read what you wrote?

For CY2008, why don't you take a look at the balance sheet and consolidated income statement for UPS? I guess we really drove them into the ground to the tune of almost $4 Billion net profit. Things are rough all over.

Roberto

Thanks for the updated lists. Very interesting. During my recent Delta jumpseat, I sat next to a UPS loadmaster on his way to pick up an MD11 charter flight, and I asked about scheduling of charters. I really didn't get it all, but he said something like DoD puts out schedules on a 3-month, 1-month, pop-up basis for carriers to bid on. They are awarded the flights based upon a formula that takes into account their previous participation, among other things. Too bad we don't have access to the actual flights awarded by airframe and carrier. How often does the list above get updated, and can we expect more UPS tails to be added?