UPS furlough and the volcano...
04-01-2009, 04:38 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Brown
Posts: 1,126
I hope you are right. I still think we are passing an opportunity to try and leverage this volcano with some good will both directions. I got the memo from Miller, and I believe Roberto was advocating this to me earlier also; to give 100% to help UPS and they see furlough threat as a separate issue. Since I've had an ear issue I called from abroad and they told me I would get my 48 hrs off when I got to the states, that there was no plan to send me to ANC. My plan was to run home and see my doctor. The sked showed an arrival and then a 1 min reposition to ANC. Once I did actually arrive in the states, they assigned me another leg to SDF, and told me that I will then be on call in reserve in SDF. I was also told I would get 48 off there. The schedule was built with a DH on my last reserve date from SDF to ANC. The flight was full of 3s and my name wasn't on the list, even though it was on my schedule. Its like they threw the contract out the window. Just now they reassigned another domestic leg and a commercial back to base. After several days of changing my sked they tell me its now all legal since its one 16 day trip. I got the memo, and I'm giving 100%, so I hope someone recognizes that. I won't get to the doctor until monday, and although I could certainly call in sick, I'm not dying or anything... They told me if I call in sick the trip isn't covered. They are out of reserves in SDF. So here is my 100%.... If I get furloughed I'm moving my family into Roberto's house.
Respectfully,
cp
Respectfully,
cp
04-01-2009, 04:47 AM
#62
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 358
Salty-
You have some good points, particularly the loyalty issue. Unfortunately a good number of IPA'ers are waiving the contract to show their loyalty to UPS. That will not get us anywhere. The good-will created by "helping out" our employer will soon be forgotten by the company. Most are guided by the almighty dollar. Look at the B&G, when we have senior Captains leading the charge by personally making calls to get guys to take a 7 hour van ride to rescue an airplane, that is WRONG!
You have some good points, particularly the loyalty issue. Unfortunately a good number of IPA'ers are waiving the contract to show their loyalty to UPS. That will not get us anywhere. The good-will created by "helping out" our employer will soon be forgotten by the company. Most are guided by the almighty dollar. Look at the B&G, when we have senior Captains leading the charge by personally making calls to get guys to take a 7 hour van ride to rescue an airplane, that is WRONG!
04-01-2009, 05:01 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 244
Cessnapilot;
With all due respect. You are being played for a chump by scheduling. The only thing recognized is boxes are moving. Not your participation. Read the "History" Thread on the BG. Scheduling is as much in the mushroom world as us. Violating the contract is in their bag of tricks as playing the guilt card. When they tell any of us that the trip will go uncovered, they appeal to loyalty. Remember this is business, they will furlough you in a minute, and could care less that you flew sick. But "if you call in sick the trip isn't covered". YGBSM! I find pilots a very loyal lot, UPS abuses that special trust and loyalty and remembers nothing of it. Besides, schedules and Contingency will get the 'credit', not the line pilot.
I fly professionally for UPS and the customers are mine, but UPS chooses to manage without our input. UPS needs to learn how to properly manage contingincies more effectively. Violating the contract should not be in our arsenal! Flying sick is unfair to your health (blow your eardrum will cost you dearly and UPS will not care) and your fellow crewmembers for reasons of safety! Love UPS, but will never violate the contract. That is my part to help UPS learn how to more effectively treat our customers by proper management. Not poor planning and execution.
Most respectfully.
With all due respect. You are being played for a chump by scheduling. The only thing recognized is boxes are moving. Not your participation. Read the "History" Thread on the BG. Scheduling is as much in the mushroom world as us. Violating the contract is in their bag of tricks as playing the guilt card. When they tell any of us that the trip will go uncovered, they appeal to loyalty. Remember this is business, they will furlough you in a minute, and could care less that you flew sick. But "if you call in sick the trip isn't covered". YGBSM! I find pilots a very loyal lot, UPS abuses that special trust and loyalty and remembers nothing of it. Besides, schedules and Contingency will get the 'credit', not the line pilot.
I fly professionally for UPS and the customers are mine, but UPS chooses to manage without our input. UPS needs to learn how to properly manage contingincies more effectively. Violating the contract should not be in our arsenal! Flying sick is unfair to your health (blow your eardrum will cost you dearly and UPS will not care) and your fellow crewmembers for reasons of safety! Love UPS, but will never violate the contract. That is my part to help UPS learn how to more effectively treat our customers by proper management. Not poor planning and execution.
Most respectfully.
I agree with never violating the contract, and I also agree that they only care about boxes moving. This is airline number 5 for me, so I know how it works. That is why I started the thread to begin with. I really think we are missing an opportunity here. That being said, when I called the emergency union scheduling line, they were NO HELP in backing me up. They said we somehow agreed to BFI, PDX, and ONT as being bases now? and that the company agreed to give the 48 hours off when an overseas trip gets back to that point. I told them I would take the flight to SDF, but that I would just leave for home then, since sked told me I would get my 48 hours off in SDF. The IPA emergency hotline guy said I needed to answer my phone in SDF that I'm on reserve still!... it became a mute point when they then resked me again to then operate back to the west coast. So... what do I do now. I really don't feel I had much support from the union sked call.
From my read of the contract, scheduling was WRONG to say I would be on reserve in SDF. Clear violation of contract "13)Reserve crewmembers may be assigned to provide coverage at those locations, except at a domicile not his own, deemed necessary by the company"
They were WRONG to build my trip without a segment back to ANC. section 13
- 166 - Article 13
(9) A reserve crewmember’s original assignment shall be within the
scheduled duty limits in accordance with Article 13.A. A reserve
crewmember who is going into days off will be provided a complete trip
including a return flight to the domicile.
They were wrong when I insisted that they put an ANC segment on the line, to put me on a full flight. It showed on my sked, but the flight was full, and I wasn't on it.
I think a little better guidance from the union would have helped. To be honest, this has gotten me into the contract a lot, but it would have been nice if the union just said "they can't do that" instead of "this is a unique situation."
Regards,
cp
and thank you SaltyDog for never violating the contract. That leads to job protection, growth, quicker upgrades, etc. The contract is all you have, unfortunately ours can be abused. The only reason they can do this on my sked is that we allow 2 domestic legs on an intl trip. We all know the intention wasn't to allow this. It was to get in position or back to base. Hopefully we can clean up the language next time.
Last edited by cessnapilot; 04-01-2009 at 05:16 AM.
04-01-2009, 05:15 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Cessnapilot,
I hear ya, call the EB directly and voice your valid issues. Leave emails and voicemails. They are busy, but 'contingencies' require direct feedback from the honest players like you! You are the eye on the ground.
Our CBA covers contingincies.
Thanks
I hear ya, call the EB directly and voice your valid issues. Leave emails and voicemails. They are busy, but 'contingencies' require direct feedback from the honest players like you! You are the eye on the ground.
Our CBA covers contingincies.
Thanks
04-01-2009, 04:16 PM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: MD-11 F/O UPS
Posts: 175
To FAI?
PS I've got a trip that cancelled and instead of a commercial, the Company put me on a J/S out of ANC to SDF (I don't live in ANC). I asked for commercial, they said no and a call to the union supported that it was a legal J/S. useless.
PS I've got a trip that cancelled and instead of a commercial, the Company put me on a J/S out of ANC to SDF (I don't live in ANC). I asked for commercial, they said no and a call to the union supported that it was a legal J/S. useless.
04-02-2009, 01:56 PM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Kickin it "C"old School in AK
Posts: 283
Dude?
I hope you are right. I still think we are passing an opportunity to try and leverage this volcano with some good will both directions. I got the memo from Miller, and I believe Roberto was advocating this to me earlier also; to give 100% to help UPS and they see furlough threat as a separate issue. Since I've had an ear issue I called from abroad and they told me I would get my 48 hrs off when I got to the states, that there was no plan to send me to ANC. My plan was to run home and see my doctor. The sked showed an arrival and then a 1 min reposition to ANC. Once I did actually arrive in the states, they assigned me another leg to SDF, and told me that I will then be on call in reserve in SDF. I was also told I would get 48 off there. The schedule was built with a DH on my last reserve date from SDF to ANC. The flight was full of 3s and my name wasn't on the list, even though it was on my schedule. Its like they threw the contract out the window. Just now they reassigned another domestic leg and a commercial back to base. After several days of changing my sked they tell me its now all legal since its one 16 day trip. I got the memo, and I'm giving 100%, so I hope someone recognizes that. I won't get to the doctor until monday, and although I could certainly call in sick, I'm not dying or anything... They told me if I call in sick the trip isn't covered. They are out of reserves in SDF. So here is my 100%.... If I get furloughed I'm moving my family into Roberto's house.
Respectfully,
cp
Respectfully,
cp
Flying sick AND waiving the contract?
What are you thinking?
You know that when you get furloughed, all that sick time is going to be gone forever. Do the math on what sick balance you have. Potentially 2 months of pay!
04-02-2009, 02:10 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Unknown
Posts: 372
04-02-2009, 02:30 PM
#69
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 3B
Posts: 1,052
Do you guys get to save sick time? Wouldn't you want to have those hours saved up for when you are recalled? Just curious. Obviously if you are just going to lose them you might as well burn them up, otherwise it might be helpful down the road to have some saved up.
04-02-2009, 02:38 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Cheydog,
Beg to differ regarding sick bank and vacation. These are earned income benefits. i.e. sick bank accrues for services rendered at 5.5 hours per pay period. Now for military folks, USERRA treats income earned (vacation) as yours to collect when you go out on military. i.e. can move up vacation for military duty. Sick bank contractually is payment for services rendered. Would say UPS will be unable to liquidate any sick bank or vacation unless they are cutting a check to the employee. This is what happened with the 2006 'signing bonus' . It was earned, and even though gone on military, UPS cut a check. Took them awhile to be convinced.
How about the rest of the potential furlough crowd. Same deal. These are earned already, isn't like a USAir furlough where those pilots knew the chance of return was zero. So they left nothing on the table. That flat out isn't the case at UPS. If they do furlough, they will need you back (the 60+ crowd alone will drive that issue) before too long and at the very least, they couldn't claim your sick bank, etc vanished. That would be too easy to win. Wouldn't burn sick bank unless sick since it won't be vaporized. Not a chance.
Beg to differ regarding sick bank and vacation. These are earned income benefits. i.e. sick bank accrues for services rendered at 5.5 hours per pay period. Now for military folks, USERRA treats income earned (vacation) as yours to collect when you go out on military. i.e. can move up vacation for military duty. Sick bank contractually is payment for services rendered. Would say UPS will be unable to liquidate any sick bank or vacation unless they are cutting a check to the employee. This is what happened with the 2006 'signing bonus' . It was earned, and even though gone on military, UPS cut a check. Took them awhile to be convinced.
How about the rest of the potential furlough crowd. Same deal. These are earned already, isn't like a USAir furlough where those pilots knew the chance of return was zero. So they left nothing on the table. That flat out isn't the case at UPS. If they do furlough, they will need you back (the 60+ crowd alone will drive that issue) before too long and at the very least, they couldn't claim your sick bank, etc vanished. That would be too easy to win. Wouldn't burn sick bank unless sick since it won't be vaporized. Not a chance.
