09-02 is FINAL!
03-21-2009, 07:29 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 397
The number comes from his budget figures.
From Yahoo
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's budget would produce $9.3 trillion in deficits over the next decade, more than four times the deficits of Republican George W. Bush's presidency, congressional auditors said Friday.
The new Congressional Budget Office figures offered a far more dire outlook for Obama's budget than the new administration predicted just last month — a deficit $2.3 trillion worse. It's a prospect even the president's own budget director called unsustainable.
From Yahoo
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's budget would produce $9.3 trillion in deficits over the next decade, more than four times the deficits of Republican George W. Bush's presidency, congressional auditors said Friday.
The new Congressional Budget Office figures offered a far more dire outlook for Obama's budget than the new administration predicted just last month — a deficit $2.3 trillion worse. It's a prospect even the president's own budget director called unsustainable.
03-22-2009, 03:08 AM
#46
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
Speaking of fear and manipulation (and to get this thread back to company politics instead of national politics before it gets the lockdown from the mods...)
Anyone else notice the timing of O's Q&A?
The same day the excess closes O decides to do a Q & A. I'm sure he just wants to give the pilot group the latest info, right?
Yeah, right.
Excess bid closes, and a whole lot of guys realize they are losing their seats. In particular, all the nuggets in ANC are getting shoved into a narrowbody.
So what does O say that night? Gee, if you end up in the 727 expect your BLG to continue to be reduced as we plus up those seats. In fact, if you end up in the back of the 727 you could see your BLG pretty close to the 48 hour limit.
O was talking directly to the nuggets (and anyone else junior enough to lose a widebody seat) and was telling them to BID HKG NOW.
This is a straight-up, pre-planned fear grenade. Close a bid that shows guys losing WB pay and then send the SCP out there to tell guys that 727 SO BLGs will be 48 hrs/month THE SAME DAY.
With the double-whammy many guys will be doing the math at home and may decide that commuting to HKG will put more money in their pocket that making min BLG in the back of the Boeing. If enough guys get scared then the company wins - they fill HKG with a crappy LOA, and they never have to follow through with furloughs or even reductions of BLGs to 48 in the 727.
O's Q & A was not an accident - it was timed specifically, and the fear grenade of min BLGs in the back of the Boeing was part of the plan.
Don't fall prey to the fear.
Anyone else notice the timing of O's Q&A?
The same day the excess closes O decides to do a Q & A. I'm sure he just wants to give the pilot group the latest info, right?
Yeah, right.
Excess bid closes, and a whole lot of guys realize they are losing their seats. In particular, all the nuggets in ANC are getting shoved into a narrowbody.
So what does O say that night? Gee, if you end up in the 727 expect your BLG to continue to be reduced as we plus up those seats. In fact, if you end up in the back of the 727 you could see your BLG pretty close to the 48 hour limit.
O was talking directly to the nuggets (and anyone else junior enough to lose a widebody seat) and was telling them to BID HKG NOW.
This is a straight-up, pre-planned fear grenade. Close a bid that shows guys losing WB pay and then send the SCP out there to tell guys that 727 SO BLGs will be 48 hrs/month THE SAME DAY.
With the double-whammy many guys will be doing the math at home and may decide that commuting to HKG will put more money in their pocket that making min BLG in the back of the Boeing. If enough guys get scared then the company wins - they fill HKG with a crappy LOA, and they never have to follow through with furloughs or even reductions of BLGs to 48 in the 727.
O's Q & A was not an accident - it was timed specifically, and the fear grenade of min BLGs in the back of the Boeing was part of the plan.
Don't fall prey to the fear.
03-22-2009, 03:32 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD11 FO, ANC
Posts: 1,098
Speaking of fear and manipulation (and to get this thread back to company politics instead of national politics before it gets the lockdown from the mods...)
Anyone else notice the timing of O's Q&A?
The same day the excess closes O decides to do a Q & A. I'm sure he just wants to give the pilot group the latest info, right?
Yeah, right.
Excess bid closes, and a whole lot of guys realize they are losing their seats. In particular, all the nuggets in ANC are getting shoved into a narrowbody.
So what does O say that night? Gee, if you end up in the 727 expect your BLG to continue to be reduced as we plus up those seats. In fact, if you end up in the back of the 727 you could see your BLG pretty close to the 48 hour limit.
O was talking directly to the nuggets (and anyone else junior enough to lose a widebody seat) and was telling them to BID HKG NOW.
This is a straight-up, pre-planned fear grenade. Close a bid that shows guys losing WB pay and then send the SCP out there to tell guys that 727 SO BLGs will be 48 hrs/month THE SAME DAY.
With the double-whammy many guys will be doing the math at home and may decide that commuting to HKG will put more money in their pocket that making min BLG in the back of the Boeing. If enough guys get scared then the company wins - they fill HKG with a crappy LOA, and they never have to follow through with furloughs or even reductions of BLGs to 48 in the 727.
O's Q & A was not an accident - it was timed specifically, and the fear grenade of min BLGs in the back of the Boeing was part of the plan.
Don't fall prey to the fear.
Anyone else notice the timing of O's Q&A?
The same day the excess closes O decides to do a Q & A. I'm sure he just wants to give the pilot group the latest info, right?
Yeah, right.
Excess bid closes, and a whole lot of guys realize they are losing their seats. In particular, all the nuggets in ANC are getting shoved into a narrowbody.
So what does O say that night? Gee, if you end up in the 727 expect your BLG to continue to be reduced as we plus up those seats. In fact, if you end up in the back of the 727 you could see your BLG pretty close to the 48 hour limit.
O was talking directly to the nuggets (and anyone else junior enough to lose a widebody seat) and was telling them to BID HKG NOW.
This is a straight-up, pre-planned fear grenade. Close a bid that shows guys losing WB pay and then send the SCP out there to tell guys that 727 SO BLGs will be 48 hrs/month THE SAME DAY.
With the double-whammy many guys will be doing the math at home and may decide that commuting to HKG will put more money in their pocket that making min BLG in the back of the Boeing. If enough guys get scared then the company wins - they fill HKG with a crappy LOA, and they never have to follow through with furloughs or even reductions of BLGs to 48 in the 727.
O's Q & A was not an accident - it was timed specifically, and the fear grenade of min BLGs in the back of the Boeing was part of the plan.
Don't fall prey to the fear.
That said, maybe a better way (a different way) to look at it would be a reality grenade (vs. fear grenade)
Having been furloughed before, my perspective may be different than yours (others)? but I look at this as information I can use in order to better plan for future scenarios.
I TOTALLY agree - "Don't fall prey to the fear" - don't make an irrational decision on what to do with this information - or how to proceed with future decisions you might face.
Use this information to make an informed decision on how best to proceed from here for yourself and your family.
Perhaps, bidding HKG would be the best answer for some? (even with the current crappy LOA) Desperate times call for desperate measures...
For others, maybe the back of the Boeing with a 48 CH guarantee might be do-able (in conjunction with something else outside of FedEx? Asst. Mgr @ Taco Bell? Wendy's?)
What I think "O" was saying was that THE REALITY of the situation is that the most junior guys are gonna end up on the 72 panel (and perhaps/probably with very low BLGs)
Maybe he was actually just putting the reality of the situation out there so guys could better plan for the future?
The other REALITY is that 48 CH on the panel is still more than 0 CH on furlough with no benefits for you/your family.
Not saying that's what everyone faced with that decison will choose (to stay on the panel and accept 48 CH) - but they now know that's one possible scenario that's probably SOON going to be REALITY for a lot of folks on our property.
Take the information and use it to your personal best advantage.
(Does there always have to be a sinister plot behind everything? - guys are starting to sound like Al Gore - "...he played on our fears!!....."
03-22-2009, 04:38 AM
#48
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
AFW,
I don't post here a lot but I read enough to know that you are sharp and one of the most reliable information guys here. You also know the contract (which too many of us do NOT know).
Your last post was spot-on. The ONLY point that I disagree with you on is this:
This is my entire point: The reality is only what the Company decides, so the REALITY of a 48 hour BLG in the back of the Boeing is just as likely as the EFB coming to the Boeing.
I've been furloughed before, and came to Mama Purple while on furlough from another carrier, so I know the drill.
What I'm saying is that by using the company information you may not be making the most informed decision that you can.
The company information is designed to "guide" guys into a certain decision - in this case, to bid HKG FO.
Is the 727 SO seat really going to go to 48 CH a month? I don't know, but it sure is a good fear grenade for the company to use.
And it all seems too "convenient" for it to not be planned - a vacancy bid for the one place they cannot fill opened while they have an excess bid. The SAME DAY that the excess bid closes the SCP comes out and says (knowing that his words will be on APC within minutes) that the 727 SO seat may get down to 48 CH a month.
I'm not saying 48 CH on the panel is impossible - just unlikely. Anyone who might end up (or is already there) on the 727 panel should probably plan for about 50 hours/month and count anything above that as a bonus. Of course, they are probably already doing that.
What O is trying to do is scare guys into bidding HKG to preserve their WB pay. The "plussing up" of the 727 hasn't happened yet (promised in a future bid). If they get the HKG FO slots filled in this vacancy bid, there might not be another excess bid. So the fear of 48 CH months would never materialize, and guys who bid to HKG to salvage pay might be ****ed because they could have had it easier living on the panel at 65 CH a month.
Again - I hope that guys use all the information they can to make an informed decision on this vacancy bid. Unfortunately I believe the company is presenting information in a way that will result in guys making bids that they may regret.
And as to your last question - when it comes to the Company (any Company - this one, my last one, my first one) - YES, there always IS a sinister plot involved.
I don't post here a lot but I read enough to know that you are sharp and one of the most reliable information guys here. You also know the contract (which too many of us do NOT know).
Your last post was spot-on. The ONLY point that I disagree with you on is this:
What I think "O" was saying was that THE REALITY of the situation is that the most junior guys are gonna end up on the 72 panel (and perhaps/probably with very low BLGs)
I've been furloughed before, and came to Mama Purple while on furlough from another carrier, so I know the drill.
What I'm saying is that by using the company information you may not be making the most informed decision that you can.
The company information is designed to "guide" guys into a certain decision - in this case, to bid HKG FO.
Is the 727 SO seat really going to go to 48 CH a month? I don't know, but it sure is a good fear grenade for the company to use.
And it all seems too "convenient" for it to not be planned - a vacancy bid for the one place they cannot fill opened while they have an excess bid. The SAME DAY that the excess bid closes the SCP comes out and says (knowing that his words will be on APC within minutes) that the 727 SO seat may get down to 48 CH a month.
I'm not saying 48 CH on the panel is impossible - just unlikely. Anyone who might end up (or is already there) on the 727 panel should probably plan for about 50 hours/month and count anything above that as a bonus. Of course, they are probably already doing that.
What O is trying to do is scare guys into bidding HKG to preserve their WB pay. The "plussing up" of the 727 hasn't happened yet (promised in a future bid). If they get the HKG FO slots filled in this vacancy bid, there might not be another excess bid. So the fear of 48 CH months would never materialize, and guys who bid to HKG to salvage pay might be ****ed because they could have had it easier living on the panel at 65 CH a month.
Again - I hope that guys use all the information they can to make an informed decision on this vacancy bid. Unfortunately I believe the company is presenting information in a way that will result in guys making bids that they may regret.
And as to your last question - when it comes to the Company (any Company - this one, my last one, my first one) - YES, there always IS a sinister plot involved.
03-22-2009, 05:13 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: 727 Captain
Posts: 205
What I smell coming around the corner, now that 50 or so pilots are debating what to do with themselves and their families when their BLG goes to 48 CH for a long while, is a slightly tweaked LOA for HKG. No where near where it should be if our membership was better united and our MEC faithful and determined to do the right thing and not the expedient thing. But this next offer will be enough to convince a few pilots to endure the anxiety and hardship, but not loose their house.
This process is "meat tenderizing". The HKG FDA will get manned like the company wants and Contract 2010 will likely only get better for them. Barry's boy Rahm suggested he not let this crisis go to waste. FDX is taking that advice to the bank.
I hope we can all get behind whoever gets the next MEC leg in April. For all our sakes and our futures.
This process is "meat tenderizing". The HKG FDA will get manned like the company wants and Contract 2010 will likely only get better for them. Barry's boy Rahm suggested he not let this crisis go to waste. FDX is taking that advice to the bank.
I hope we can all get behind whoever gets the next MEC leg in April. For all our sakes and our futures.
03-22-2009, 05:51 AM
#50
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
Popeye,
We are seeing the same things happen at the Fed level and the Fred level...
Claim "crisis".
Hope that people believe in the "crisis" in whatever place you've now applied it to.
Hmmm....not enough compliance? Announce a new round of "potential" layoffs.
Watch everyone scramble for their job. Career FOs? Watch them bid up to Captain.
Keep changing the definition of "crisis" to suit your needs. (727 SO BLG at 48 CHs a perfect example.)
See the results of your campaign, and then re-evaluate.
Laugh as you string up 4500 pilots by their balls.
Repeat as necessary to get the people you want in the seats you want.
We are seeing the same things happen at the Fed level and the Fred level...
Claim "crisis".
Hope that people believe in the "crisis" in whatever place you've now applied it to.
Hmmm....not enough compliance? Announce a new round of "potential" layoffs.
Watch everyone scramble for their job. Career FOs? Watch them bid up to Captain.
Keep changing the definition of "crisis" to suit your needs. (727 SO BLG at 48 CHs a perfect example.)
See the results of your campaign, and then re-evaluate.
Laugh as you string up 4500 pilots by their balls.
Repeat as necessary to get the people you want in the seats you want.
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