A Letter to FDX ALPA Officers
03-14-2009, 10:14 PM
#91
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Seat of Pain
Posts: 62
Besides, Moneyman is the guy that started this thread by saying "Seniority is great, but not at the expense of the entire crew force!" The senior guys need to pitch in to protect the rest of the crew force? Oh, and the junior guys need to pitch in (by giving up their jobs), too! I guess we all need to serve the common good, huh? At least as long as the common good is good for Moneyman. There's a real hard core capitalist for ya.
03-15-2009, 08:42 AM
#94
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 57 Capt
Posts: 141
Sea Pig... I now see the error of my ways. I think you're absolutely correct about the common good. Here's a few ideas I came up:
1. How about an assessment from everyone to fund the future furloughees or be used as a strike fund in case there are no furloughs. Let's start out by assessing everyone on the seniority list say $5,000/month for FO's, $8,000/month for Captains, and $10,000 for really senior Captains (just to make it fair). I'm thinking the goal ought to be at least $100,000 for each furloughee annually so that they won't feel "stigmatized" by their furloughed status. Also, it wouldn't be fair if they had to give up anything just because they got furloughed.
2. The stress of all this furlough talk is going to have to be relieved somehow. How about anyone with a vacation home or condo let any other union member use it when they feel super stressed? To make it fair maybe there could be another assessment to help pay for the increased upkeep on these vacation properties?
3. In the event there is a furlough, some of those getting the axe will no doubt be young and single. I'm sure many of them will be totally stressed out. Well, it's not fair that they'll be stressed out but won't have anyone to de-stress with. How about some of the wives get together and say one or even two of them offer to accompany the stressed out single furloughee on vacation? Maybe they could have priority use of the common vacation properties unless they've been there so many times they'll feel bored? If so perhaps another small assessment to go toward a "unique vacation" fund?
Well... these are just a few of the great ideas I've come up with. Perhaps others have some great ideas also?
Joe
1. How about an assessment from everyone to fund the future furloughees or be used as a strike fund in case there are no furloughs. Let's start out by assessing everyone on the seniority list say $5,000/month for FO's, $8,000/month for Captains, and $10,000 for really senior Captains (just to make it fair). I'm thinking the goal ought to be at least $100,000 for each furloughee annually so that they won't feel "stigmatized" by their furloughed status. Also, it wouldn't be fair if they had to give up anything just because they got furloughed.
2. The stress of all this furlough talk is going to have to be relieved somehow. How about anyone with a vacation home or condo let any other union member use it when they feel super stressed? To make it fair maybe there could be another assessment to help pay for the increased upkeep on these vacation properties?
3. In the event there is a furlough, some of those getting the axe will no doubt be young and single. I'm sure many of them will be totally stressed out. Well, it's not fair that they'll be stressed out but won't have anyone to de-stress with. How about some of the wives get together and say one or even two of them offer to accompany the stressed out single furloughee on vacation? Maybe they could have priority use of the common vacation properties unless they've been there so many times they'll feel bored? If so perhaps another small assessment to go toward a "unique vacation" fund?
Well... these are just a few of the great ideas I've come up with. Perhaps others have some great ideas also?
Joe
guess i just did.
03-15-2009, 09:00 AM
#95
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 20
MoneyMan & Avg Joe,
First of all, it would be wrong to call you idiots for your comments as we are all entitled to our freedom of speech. So bravo to you and you thoughtless comments.
You both, in your lack of thought, have failed to realize the arguments that you made are flawed. You speak of spreading the wealth, so lets look into that.
1)You are incorrect, there is no spreading of the wealth. The captains get more than the first officers and second officers. This is the system which we all agree to and are willing to live with.
2)We are all equally qualified when we are hired as Fedex pilots. The playing field is even with the exception of longevity and seat. The company has made the move to pay the pilots less money and each pilot has taken the hourly cut. The pilots with more longevity and better seat are still making more money.
3) Your socialist comments make no sense. Fedex is not a governmental body. It is a company. It makes decisions based on its own financial survival. If it were indeed a "socialist" company, they would burn the contract and pay each pilot the same amount.
4) Good luck to you both, I hope you two enjoy your wealth and prosperity.
We are all lucky to have had the opportunity to work alongside such noble and generous coworkers.
First of all, it would be wrong to call you idiots for your comments as we are all entitled to our freedom of speech. So bravo to you and you thoughtless comments.
You both, in your lack of thought, have failed to realize the arguments that you made are flawed. You speak of spreading the wealth, so lets look into that.
1)You are incorrect, there is no spreading of the wealth. The captains get more than the first officers and second officers. This is the system which we all agree to and are willing to live with.
2)We are all equally qualified when we are hired as Fedex pilots. The playing field is even with the exception of longevity and seat. The company has made the move to pay the pilots less money and each pilot has taken the hourly cut. The pilots with more longevity and better seat are still making more money.
3) Your socialist comments make no sense. Fedex is not a governmental body. It is a company. It makes decisions based on its own financial survival. If it were indeed a "socialist" company, they would burn the contract and pay each pilot the same amount.
4) Good luck to you both, I hope you two enjoy your wealth and prosperity.
We are all lucky to have had the opportunity to work alongside such noble and generous coworkers.
03-15-2009, 10:49 AM
#96
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Seat of Pain
Posts: 62
Joe,
You completely missed my point. You say you are a capitalist, but you revel in the security and privilege that comes from working in a protected labor market within a protected industry. Seniority has no place in a free market. It is an artificiality of the anti-competitive nature of a unionized workforce. If you were a true believer in capitalism, you wouldn't be crying about protecting what advantages your seniority gives you, you would be itching for a chance to undercut the rest of us by offering Fred better job performance for less money.
And that wasn't my quote about the senior guys needing to give up their carryover for the good of the entire work force. That was your buddy Moneyman. He's the one complaining that they need to give up carryover for the common good. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of that coming from a guy who doesn't want to give up hours to try and protect the junior members.
My point is that you guys aren't acting like capitalists or free marketeers, you are just grasping at incoherent arguments to try and protect yours, all while ignoring the interests of the other members, whose collective participation in this brotherhood has made those privileges possible. You are not being principled, just selfish. Like it or not, we are all in this together and we need to find the common ground and consensus positions.
You completely missed my point. You say you are a capitalist, but you revel in the security and privilege that comes from working in a protected labor market within a protected industry. Seniority has no place in a free market. It is an artificiality of the anti-competitive nature of a unionized workforce. If you were a true believer in capitalism, you wouldn't be crying about protecting what advantages your seniority gives you, you would be itching for a chance to undercut the rest of us by offering Fred better job performance for less money.
And that wasn't my quote about the senior guys needing to give up their carryover for the good of the entire work force. That was your buddy Moneyman. He's the one complaining that they need to give up carryover for the common good. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy of that coming from a guy who doesn't want to give up hours to try and protect the junior members.
My point is that you guys aren't acting like capitalists or free marketeers, you are just grasping at incoherent arguments to try and protect yours, all while ignoring the interests of the other members, whose collective participation in this brotherhood has made those privileges possible. You are not being principled, just selfish. Like it or not, we are all in this together and we need to find the common ground and consensus positions.
03-15-2009, 11:04 AM
#97
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Pig,
Fred pays us what we are worth because he sells a service. Cheaper does not mean better. At least you aren't one of those guys who says Unions are a good deal for business because union workers are happier, smarter, and better looking (or what ever the UAW is pedaling now-a-days).
Not defending anyones views, Joe just highlights our problems are with the union and not the company. We need to remember our capitalist goals of trading some individual rights to make the work place better and more profitable for all of us.
Fred pays us what we are worth because he sells a service. Cheaper does not mean better. At least you aren't one of those guys who says Unions are a good deal for business because union workers are happier, smarter, and better looking (or what ever the UAW is pedaling now-a-days).
Not defending anyones views, Joe just highlights our problems are with the union and not the company. We need to remember our capitalist goals of trading some individual rights to make the work place better and more profitable for all of us.
03-16-2009, 03:06 AM
#98
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 425
Despite the attacks on you here, you do have some salient and valid points that should be answered, but not on this forum. There are too many "spies" willing to report back to "someone". I do not however, support the removal of any flight crewmembers but the fact does remain, that this CBA has a "furlough" stipulation and this crewforce voted in this CBA, at the recommendation of our Union.
03-16-2009, 10:14 PM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
Money Man,
I really wanted to think about this before I replied. I absolutely agree with a lot of your post. It would have been in everyone's best interest to implement these measures long ago (ERIP, Carry In, VLOA). What struck me the most about your post was in the last paragraph where you said you want to be able to make a plan. We all want to do that....make a plan. The thing about it is that it is completely out of our hands. I remember from my pre-furlough days at US Air a term that got tossed around a lot. FUD....fear, uncertainty and doubt. It seems like that is what we are seeing here. I would love to be able to plan 6 months and a year into the future, but we don't have any clue where things are going. The one thing I do know is that the more FUD that gets sown around here the better off management is... they are dealing with a very fractured pilot group. We have an LOA coming at us and it won't be long before contract negotiations commence....... throw some FUD in there and we ( our contract) becomes easy prey.....
I, as a junior crew member, appreciate the shared sacrifice in earnings that each one of us is enduring. I also realize that there is a breaking point where I would not ask my friends and sponsor to go beyond in protecting my job. At some point I realize that my family is my responsibility just as your family is your responsibility and I don't expect anyone to take from their family to give to me and mine! ( Hows that for a long sentence?)
We all want to make plans and know which direction our company and our futures are going. I believe that it is in the companys best interest to have us fractured and fearful. If we can hang tough and support each other and endure some level of pain together we will get through this and be a much stronger and more effective group.
No one likes FUD, but it is ours to endure for now.... the ending of it is, in a way, ours to write.
I really wanted to think about this before I replied. I absolutely agree with a lot of your post. It would have been in everyone's best interest to implement these measures long ago (ERIP, Carry In, VLOA). What struck me the most about your post was in the last paragraph where you said you want to be able to make a plan. We all want to do that....make a plan. The thing about it is that it is completely out of our hands. I remember from my pre-furlough days at US Air a term that got tossed around a lot. FUD....fear, uncertainty and doubt. It seems like that is what we are seeing here. I would love to be able to plan 6 months and a year into the future, but we don't have any clue where things are going. The one thing I do know is that the more FUD that gets sown around here the better off management is... they are dealing with a very fractured pilot group. We have an LOA coming at us and it won't be long before contract negotiations commence....... throw some FUD in there and we ( our contract) becomes easy prey.....
I, as a junior crew member, appreciate the shared sacrifice in earnings that each one of us is enduring. I also realize that there is a breaking point where I would not ask my friends and sponsor to go beyond in protecting my job. At some point I realize that my family is my responsibility just as your family is your responsibility and I don't expect anyone to take from their family to give to me and mine! ( Hows that for a long sentence?)
We all want to make plans and know which direction our company and our futures are going. I believe that it is in the companys best interest to have us fractured and fearful. If we can hang tough and support each other and endure some level of pain together we will get through this and be a much stronger and more effective group.
No one likes FUD, but it is ours to endure for now.... the ending of it is, in a way, ours to write.
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