FXDX

Additionally, if I read the settlement letter correctly, if you don't continue to bid HKG CA at 100% until such time as you are awarded it or a different widebody CA seat you will have to pay the passover back. Could be a nice interest free loan, but in the end just a loan.

Popeye

Thanks for the clarification. That makes good sense.

If I now have this straight, even though someone was excessed, bid for HKG CA, got on the VTL; they still might not earn POP for a long time until such date on the VTL. But in the end, the company is not paying POP to 100's of pilots. Because the reality is, by the time the VTL date arrives, chances are there will be another vacancy bid or some other circumstance that compels the POP receiver to change his bid, else move to HKG.

Don't let me get too far off track here, in this case, the company is paying POP at any given time, with respect to any given bid, to pilots numbering in the 20's, and not 100's or 1000's.

Do I have it right?

pwdrhound

So in this case, the more junior widebody FO guy GETTING EXCESSED will get widebody capt POP (if he is senior the the most junior HKG capt) while the more senior FO (who bids HKG capt at 100% to RELIEVE EXCESS) does not. Seems hardly fair....

FXDX

More than likely, yes. The number is limited by the number of guys ballsy enough to bid it just for passover and the throughput of the virtual training letter.

FXDX

hound: if a bunch of senior guys bid to relieve, the junior guy won't get excessed, and thus couldn't "hold" the new seat.

Busboy

For every senior F/O that bids to relieve the excess...One junior F/O will not get excessed.

So no, juniority is not going to get a guy passover, or position, over a senior guy that wants it.

Busboy

I believe yes, he would lose POP.

From the FEPP settlement agreement Section B:

2. Ending of FEPP.
A pilot's FEPP under Section 24.C.6.d. shall end upon the earlier of:

a. The pilot's failure to bid (i.e., a vacancy bid in a vacancy posting; a bid to relieve in an excess posting) a crew position at 100% that the pilot could have held with a rate of pay the same or greater than the denied FDA crew position...

There are 6 more ways to lose POP, under this agreement.

FDXLAG

I don't know it could easily be hundreds. One thing for sure, if I were looking at HKG right now I would rather go as a F/O on POP than a CPT. Most likley much more commutable.

And for there be a vacancy in HKG (other than growth) there has to be a vacancy available that the current HKG Capt wants to hold with his seniority. Of course a FDA in CDG or a MD-11 HKG vacancy could allow a lot of movement and call a lot of bluffs.

kwri10s

I'm pretty sure that is not correct. The FO in question bid to relieve excess. He is awarded that bid....except the company is not allowing him to move to his new awarded bid ( HK CA). He is paid POP and the bid moves down to the next person on the seniority list. You have been awarded (or should have been awarded) the slot but they are not letting you move. Thereby you haven't actually moved so they have to go down the list (they still need to excess). Everyone (1500 was the number used previously) who is sr to the jr HK CA could theoretically get POP. They would have to be in a seat being excessed, bid HK CA 100%.

Also, to answer another question, even if you bid HK CA 100% and were excessed to say ANC FO you would still get POP since you were sr enough to hold the slot.

All reasons this massive move makes no sense. You'd think a small excess in the bus would be the way to start. I'd have 5 small excess bids so you could watch what happened every time. But then again, I'd have also done that last year when they tried this the last time.

FDXLAG

I wonder why there is confusion on POP. I guess since POP isn't really important to the right half of the seniority list it isn't really important. Any other section of the contract that contract enforcement doesn't think needs enforcement?