FDX - Open Time Bots
03-21-2009, 02:13 PM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
You guys need to separate fact from fiction and supposition.
I don't believe crewmembers, who have to log in securely, can anonymously plant a program into VIPS and block everyone else without getting caught. I think the company just doesn't want to spend the money required to upgrade VIPS to handle us checking open time without crashing VIPS. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Why are they lying? They are contractually required to provide us access to open time. By making up a good story they are avoiding potential arbitration.
The funniest thing about this is how you get angry and stalk the guys who have picked up open time trips then get even angrier, call them names and threaten them when they block their calenders. I wonder why they would do that? Duh.
I don't know what bots are doing, perhaps its not an in issue in the Boeing. But here are a couple of facts instead of paranoid delusion to ponder.
FACT - You don't have enough hits on open time to check every few seconds 24/7. Can't even check like that for 2 hrs per day.
FACT - Since, as a multiple open time hitter, you can't check it throughout the day, you will miss trips you see and think should be yours. Someone may have checked open time a few seconds before you. You won't get the trip that hits open time at 1800 if you, the cool dude, are out at dinner with friends and the "open time checking geek" is busy at home. You want fairness? I don't think so. I think the guy spending the time and energy checking open time instead of goofing off deserves that trip, in all fairness.
I manually check open time and now it's much harder. I predict your call for fairness will result in a further reduction in access.
No thanks will come from me for any whiner who can't spare the time to check open time and wants to ruin everyone's access. The phrase "Wanting your cake and eating it too" comes to mind.
I don't believe crewmembers, who have to log in securely, can anonymously plant a program into VIPS and block everyone else without getting caught. I think the company just doesn't want to spend the money required to upgrade VIPS to handle us checking open time without crashing VIPS. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Why are they lying? They are contractually required to provide us access to open time. By making up a good story they are avoiding potential arbitration.
The funniest thing about this is how you get angry and stalk the guys who have picked up open time trips then get even angrier, call them names and threaten them when they block their calenders. I wonder why they would do that? Duh.
I don't know what bots are doing, perhaps its not an in issue in the Boeing. But here are a couple of facts instead of paranoid delusion to ponder.
FACT - You don't have enough hits on open time to check every few seconds 24/7. Can't even check like that for 2 hrs per day.
FACT - Since, as a multiple open time hitter, you can't check it throughout the day, you will miss trips you see and think should be yours. Someone may have checked open time a few seconds before you. You won't get the trip that hits open time at 1800 if you, the cool dude, are out at dinner with friends and the "open time checking geek" is busy at home. You want fairness? I don't think so. I think the guy spending the time and energy checking open time instead of goofing off deserves that trip, in all fairness.
I manually check open time and now it's much harder. I predict your call for fairness will result in a further reduction in access.
No thanks will come from me for any whiner who can't spare the time to check open time and wants to ruin everyone's access. The phrase "Wanting your cake and eating it too" comes to mind.
The trips snatched are not typical 727 type trips...they are long trips with high dev banks. I didn't "miss" a trip last night because I wasn't quick--I missed a trip because it disappeared with a FZ on it and yet ended up on another pilot's calendar. I work open time about as hard as anyone--always looking to improve a trip...but despite my success at picking up or trading some trips I NEVER get one of those trips to Europe. And yet...again and again...the same guys consistently do. Its not about skipping dinner and being an "open time geek"...there is something else going on.
I'll say this... If these guys are manipulating the computer system they are not only stepping on other pilots, but playing a high stakes game with their future. Guys have been terminated here for less.
I've been junior on the 727 and now MD11 since I've been here, and one of things I love about working here is the abilty to drop and add trips and improve your schedule. As LAG pointed out, dorking around with that puts all at risk of losing the ability to do that.
So..in short Gunter...I got no sympathy for a guy who just gets beat to the draw on open time. I've won and lost that game MANY times, and we all know thats how things work. What appears to be going on here, however, anecdotally looks much more serious. I saw it with my eyes last night. I've seen trips pop in and disappear in seconds, but this wasn't like that. Take it from a guy who could get lucky and snake the occasionally OAK trip on the 727 even though I could never hold them on a line...I have been that geek hitting F5, F5, F5 like you mentioned. This is beyond that...
03-21-2009, 02:19 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Is it possible that TG knows someone in Scheduling that gives him a heads up for choice trips? How about someone in Charters that does the same? It could be any number of possibilities.
Because of this, many others would like to just hear a simple explanation as to how this can occur. Nothing sinister about it.
This is more likely IMHO and makes the most sense. Ever wonder why the "special" charters go to duty officers and specially selected line CAs? Friends taking care of friends?
03-21-2009, 02:21 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Reread my post about which trips the reserve guys do not have to worry about getting slammed with.
03-21-2009, 02:26 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
I was online last night updating every couple minutes hoping to catch the trips mentioned when they unfroze. In fact, I saw the same thing Jolly did when a "frozen" trip just disappeared.
I didn't "miss" a trip last night because I wasn't quick--I missed a trip because it disappeared with a FZ on it and yet ended up on another pilot's calendar. I work open time about as hard as anyone--always looking to improve a trip...but despite my success at picking up or trading some trips I NEVER get one of those trips to Europe. What appears to be going on here, however, anecdotally looks much more serious. I saw it with my eyes last night. I've seen trips pop in and disappear in seconds, but this wasn't like that.
I didn't "miss" a trip last night because I wasn't quick--I missed a trip because it disappeared with a FZ on it and yet ended up on another pilot's calendar. I work open time about as hard as anyone--always looking to improve a trip...but despite my success at picking up or trading some trips I NEVER get one of those trips to Europe. What appears to be going on here, however, anecdotally looks much more serious. I saw it with my eyes last night. I've seen trips pop in and disappear in seconds, but this wasn't like that.
We all know the ACPs and SCP are restricted from talking about "private company business" so I don't expect them to admit it or even think about doing anything about it. I wonder what we can do.
03-21-2009, 02:34 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
So you know reserve utilization is high and open time, in the Boeing, generally comes and goes quickly. When it doesn't, draft calls are getting more and more frequent. What does that tell you?
It tells me the company is working too hard to keep the line averages down. If it was higher they wouldn't have the problem they have created for themselves. Of course the blame is being deflected to other areas.
Which is a different issue altogether and deserves it's own thread...
03-21-2009, 02:41 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 318
Bot Wars. Again, supposition and paranoia. I don't believe it. I'm not drinking the Koolaid from either side.
The only push for a seniority based open time system is from folks who are unhappy with the lines they have to choose from and want more. Not just junior bidders like me but mid level dudes too.
The only push for a seniority based open time system is from folks who are unhappy with the lines they have to choose from and want more. Not just junior bidders like me but mid level dudes too.
As far as your point on the Union having bigger fish to fry. That one I'll agree with you on 100%. In fact I don't think this is a union problem at all, C--k Blocking is an attitude problem not a policy or contract problem. Since blanket parties are not in style, I'd have to go with option 2 which a good a-s chewing as a minimum and probably some punishment for those who CB others from open time.
This is not a BOT koolaid thing. I've talked with the IT guys and these Bott Geeks have effectively blocked others from accessing open time. Looks to me like it's still happening. This needs to be solved by the IT guys, not the Union.
03-21-2009, 02:53 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 147
I don't know where you are getting the seniority based open time push flame bait? I have not seen anyone in favor of that here.
As far as your point on the Union having bigger fish to fry. That one I'll agree with you on 100%. In fact I don't think this is a union problem at all, C--k Blocking is an attitude problem not a policy or contract problem. Since blanket parties are not in style, I'd have to go with option 2 which a good a-s chewing as a minimum and probably some punishment for those who CB others from open time.
This is not a BOT koolaid thing. I've talked with the IT guys and these Bott Geeks have effectively blocked others from accessing open time. Looks to me like it's still happening. This needs to be solved by the IT guys, not the Union.
As far as your point on the Union having bigger fish to fry. That one I'll agree with you on 100%. In fact I don't think this is a union problem at all, C--k Blocking is an attitude problem not a policy or contract problem. Since blanket parties are not in style, I'd have to go with option 2 which a good a-s chewing as a minimum and probably some punishment for those who CB others from open time.
This is not a BOT koolaid thing. I've talked with the IT guys and these Bott Geeks have effectively blocked others from accessing open time. Looks to me like it's still happening. This needs to be solved by the IT guys, not the Union.
2. I think tampering with a company computer system AND eroding the quality of life of other crew members while positioning oneself for personal gain IS a big fish.
3. Aren't the IT guys COMPANY guys? As long as the bot boys don't render their system unusable why would they care about the welfare of the pilot group?
4. This IS a Union issue, and must be dealt with swiftly and punitively.
03-21-2009, 02:54 PM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Think about all the "misdirection" utilized lately. A380 rates in the contract, accepted fare rules being changed with claims it wasn't (they still say this!), excess out of the 727 SO seat, techniques utilized to get the HKG LOA ratified and now to help fill HKG FO, the legality of 4a2b.
I think we may, once again, be the victims of a misinformation campaign. This time it's from IT.
But I do believe the good 'ole boy network is a problem. Schedulers have been know to lie about how trips are assigned out of open time.....
03-21-2009, 02:57 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 147
TG is junior to me, so I KNOW he's not getting these trips on VTO.
I'm an Open Time surfer to the max, but after looking at his schedule it is patently clear that he is working around, not within, the system. NO WAY any human can spend that much time in Open Time and just get lucky month after month!
I'm an Open Time surfer to the max, but after looking at his schedule it is patently clear that he is working around, not within, the system. NO WAY any human can spend that much time in Open Time and just get lucky month after month!
03-21-2009, 03:04 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A300/310 Capt
Posts: 1,642
I created a program that when a scheduler puts a trip into open time, it hides it from the rest of the pilots and sends me a text message to my shoe phone. It keeps the trip hidden from everyone except scheduling until I check open time just before I go to bed at night. If I don't like the F/O on the trip, it logs in as the F/O and calls in sick, and immediately takes him off of the trip. Is that what is going on here? Maybe he got a copy of my bot. 
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