FDX - Open Time Bots
03-21-2009, 10:15 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Row well and live...
Posts: 494
Seems to me the company has already said--formally, via FCIF--that they aren't too impressed with those tampering with their computer systems. That would make sense, since the practice is illegal, as well as a blatant bone-your-buddy demo.
I'd be thinking more of the fallout if FX legal gets ahold of this. Someone drops a note to the right person, and these clowns could outsmart themselves. Call it the "Computer Darwin Awards". They wouldn't be dead, but they'd be just as gone...
I'd be thinking more of the fallout if FX legal gets ahold of this. Someone drops a note to the right person, and these clowns could outsmart themselves. Call it the "Computer Darwin Awards". They wouldn't be dead, but they'd be just as gone...
03-21-2009, 10:31 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
03-21-2009, 11:23 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
HF, I used to think the same way. If the guy came up with a way to beat everybody else to the cherry trips, good for him. That line of thought changed when somebody pointed out that these programs block everybody else out while they pick up which trip they want. That really rubs me the wrong way. I have no problem if u build a better mouse trap and beat me fair and square, but that isn't the case. Buddy is only half a word to these guys.
I don't believe crewmembers, who have to log in securely, can anonymously plant a program into VIPS and block everyone else without getting caught. I think the company just doesn't want to spend the money required to upgrade VIPS to handle us checking open time without crashing VIPS. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Why are they lying? They are contractually required to provide us access to open time. By making up a good story they are avoiding potential arbitration.
The funniest thing about this is how you get angry and stalk the guys who have picked up open time trips then get even angrier, call them names and threaten them when they block their calenders. I wonder why they would do that? Duh.
I don't know what bots are doing, perhaps its not an in issue in the Boeing. But here are a couple of facts instead of paranoid delusion to ponder.
FACT - You don't have enough hits on open time to check every few seconds 24/7. Can't even check like that for 2 hrs per day.
FACT - Since, as a multiple open time hitter, you can't check it throughout the day, you will miss trips you see and think should be yours. Someone may have checked open time a few seconds before you. You won't get the trip that hits open time at 1800 if you, the cool dude, are out at dinner with friends and the "open time checking geek" is busy at home. You want fairness? I don't think so. I think the guy spending the time and energy checking open time instead of goofing off deserves that trip, in all fairness.
I manually check open time and now it's much harder. I predict your call for fairness will result in a further reduction in access.
No thanks will come from me for any whiner who can't spare the time to check open time and wants to ruin everyone's access. The phrase "Wanting your cake and eating it too" comes to mind.
03-21-2009, 12:21 PM
#74
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
You guys need to separate fact from fiction and supposition.
I don't believe crewmembers, who have to log in securely, can anonymously plant a program into VIPS and block everyone else without getting caught. I think the company just doesn't want to spend the money required to upgrade VIPS to handle us checking open time without crashing VIPS. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Why are they lying? They are contractually required to provide us access to open time. By making up a good story they are avoiding potential arbitration.
The funniest thing about this is how you get angry and stalk the guys who have picked up open time trips then get even angrier, call them names and threaten them when they block their calenders. I wonder why they would do that? Duh.
I don't know what bots are doing, perhaps its not an in issue in the Boeing. But here are a couple of facts instead of paranoid delusion to ponder.
FACT - You don't have enough hits on open time to check every few seconds 24/7. Can't even check like that for 2 hrs per day.
FACT - Since, as a multiple open time hitter, you can't check it throughout the day, you will miss trips you see and think should be yours. Someone may have checked open time a few seconds before you. You won't get the trip that hits open time at 1800 if you, the cool dude, are out at dinner with friends and the "open time checking geek" is busy at home. You want fairness? I don't think so. I think the guy spending the time and energy checking open time instead of goofing off deserves that trip, in all fairness.
I manually check open time and now it's much harder. I predict your call for fairness will result in a further reduction in access.
No thanks will come from me for any whiner who can't spare the time to check open time and wants to ruin everyone's access. The phrase "Wanting your cake and eating it too" comes to mind.
I don't believe crewmembers, who have to log in securely, can anonymously plant a program into VIPS and block everyone else without getting caught. I think the company just doesn't want to spend the money required to upgrade VIPS to handle us checking open time without crashing VIPS. Don't be fooled by the propaganda. Why are they lying? They are contractually required to provide us access to open time. By making up a good story they are avoiding potential arbitration.
The funniest thing about this is how you get angry and stalk the guys who have picked up open time trips then get even angrier, call them names and threaten them when they block their calenders. I wonder why they would do that? Duh.
I don't know what bots are doing, perhaps its not an in issue in the Boeing. But here are a couple of facts instead of paranoid delusion to ponder.
FACT - You don't have enough hits on open time to check every few seconds 24/7. Can't even check like that for 2 hrs per day.
FACT - Since, as a multiple open time hitter, you can't check it throughout the day, you will miss trips you see and think should be yours. Someone may have checked open time a few seconds before you. You won't get the trip that hits open time at 1800 if you, the cool dude, are out at dinner with friends and the "open time checking geek" is busy at home. You want fairness? I don't think so. I think the guy spending the time and energy checking open time instead of goofing off deserves that trip, in all fairness.
I manually check open time and now it's much harder. I predict your call for fairness will result in a further reduction in access.
No thanks will come from me for any whiner who can't spare the time to check open time and wants to ruin everyone's access. The phrase "Wanting your cake and eating it too" comes to mind.
Have a glass of wine Gunter and chill out....
03-21-2009, 01:21 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
FACT - The average life span of a good trip in open time is 6.342 seconds. I think the reserve guys can sleep through the night with out fear of being assigned a double deadhead open time trip.
I am for more restriction if it means everyone has a fair shot. That sure beats an electronic arms race to see who can mess with VIPS the quickest. Publish the rules and enforce the rules and we can all adapt. Bot Wars unchecked will eventually result in switching to a seniority based open time system.
I am for more restriction if it means everyone has a fair shot. That sure beats an electronic arms race to see who can mess with VIPS the quickest. Publish the rules and enforce the rules and we can all adapt. Bot Wars unchecked will eventually result in switching to a seniority based open time system.
03-21-2009, 02:01 PM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
LAG,
727 FOs can't drop trips due to insufficient reserves and sick callers are enduring a full court press to punish them.
Look at the calenders of folks on reserve and tell us again how they are safe from being used.
727 FOs can't drop trips due to insufficient reserves and sick callers are enduring a full court press to punish them.
Look at the calenders of folks on reserve and tell us again how they are safe from being used.
03-21-2009, 02:10 PM
#79
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: MD-11 F/O
Posts: 65
Gunter,
Point taken re: if he is just luckier because he is checking open time more frequently than the rest of us. However, there could be other issues that are improving his odds dramatically! (As you pointed out, you can't simply check every minute, 24/7 now!) How is it that a crewmember can check at exactly the right moment, that consistently.
Is it possible that TG knows someone in Scheduling that gives him a heads up for choice trips? How about someone in Charters that does the same? It could be any number of possibilities.
I think the arguments presented here are based on the statistical improbability of a crewmember surfing OT constantly and coming up with incredible Double DH Intl trips month in, month out.
Because of this, many others would like to just hear a simple explanation as to how this can occur. Nothing sinister about it.
Point taken re: if he is just luckier because he is checking open time more frequently than the rest of us. However, there could be other issues that are improving his odds dramatically! (As you pointed out, you can't simply check every minute, 24/7 now!) How is it that a crewmember can check at exactly the right moment, that consistently.
Is it possible that TG knows someone in Scheduling that gives him a heads up for choice trips? How about someone in Charters that does the same? It could be any number of possibilities.
I think the arguments presented here are based on the statistical improbability of a crewmember surfing OT constantly and coming up with incredible Double DH Intl trips month in, month out.
Because of this, many others would like to just hear a simple explanation as to how this can occur. Nothing sinister about it.
03-21-2009, 02:12 PM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
The only push for a seniority based open time system is from folks who are unhappy with the lines they have to choose from and want more. Not just junior bidders like me but mid level dudes too.
Whose fault is it that the system is not creating decent lines? If you answered anything other than "management" you are falling for the party line. No matter how honest SCP OR is he doesn't sharing everything. To his credit, I don't think they give him the info he deserves to have. He tries but can only offer his own WAG.
For this we want to permanently alter the system? We may have some good ideas but the solution dictated by the company is often waaayyy off the mark and draconian. All in the name of saving money and ease of use for them.
Be careful what you ask for.
Last edited by Gunter; 03-21-2009 at 03:13 PM.
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