FDX-Excess BID, Passover Pay Q.
02-28-2009, 04:00 AM
#11
Slainge Var'
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Yeah, I meant they have the same training dates as in my example ( 9 months apart). OK, here's another example, Capts A and B both are scheduled for downgrade training on the same day. Capt B, the junior one, is riding his horse the day prior. It gets attacked by a butterfly and he falls off and hurts his shoulder and is out for 3 months receiving WB capt pay as pay only. ( I know you think this is impossible, but it COULD happen!). Capt A dutifully accomplishes his training on time. Is Capt A eligible for passover pay until Capt B, junior to him, finishes his training? Or...can someone junior to you, excessed to the same seat, receive WB capt pay while you get the shaft? It just seems like this is one big unexplored bucket of worms here.
02-28-2009, 08:06 AM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 38
I would think that if you fell off a horse after being attacked by a bee and came back to work when it was more convenient for you then you might have a chance for passover pay 
Its hard to say though because chances are you would go NOQ during that period and that might negate any passover pay.
Its hard to say though because chances are you would go NOQ during that period and that might negate any passover pay.
02-28-2009, 10:00 AM
#15
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
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Posts: 1,052
OK, a question for the pilot lounge lawyers out there.
A-300 MEM Capts A and B are one seniority number apart (Capt A is senior). Both are excessed out of their seat (which they bid at 100%). Due to their standing bid, Capt A is excessed to the right seat of the A-300 MEM and Capt B is excessed to the right seat of the 777. Capt A is sent to training in Sep 2009 and Capt B, June 2010. The question then is, is Capt A entitled to widebody Capt passover pay while Capt B, (or anyone else junior) is still receiving WB Capt pay? Apology in advance if this is spelled out in pilot language in the CBA and I just couldn't find it.
A-300 MEM Capts A and B are one seniority number apart (Capt A is senior). Both are excessed out of their seat (which they bid at 100%). Due to their standing bid, Capt A is excessed to the right seat of the A-300 MEM and Capt B is excessed to the right seat of the 777. Capt A is sent to training in Sep 2009 and Capt B, June 2010. The question then is, is Capt A entitled to widebody Capt passover pay while Capt B, (or anyone else junior) is still receiving WB Capt pay? Apology in advance if this is spelled out in pilot language in the CBA and I just couldn't find it.
From the contract 24D.3:
" Training Due To Excess
1. Pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be scheduled for training in reverse seniority order. Application of this paragraph shall not trigger passover pay for the involuntarily excessed pilots.
2. If the actions of a foreign government, law or regulation require the unanticipated or accelerated closure or partial closure of a base, the Company shall endeavor to train and activate those pilots with a minimum impact on the existing training and activation schedules of other pilots. However, pilots excessed from that base may be trained and/or activated into their new crew positions without generating passover pay to any pilot."
02-28-2009, 06:12 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
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If they both bid 777 and Capt A went to training before Capt B, then I think Capt A should be entitled to retain his widebody pay until Capt B is activated.
Whether I think the company would pay it without being forced to is a different question.
Whether I think the company would pay it without being forced to is a different question.
02-28-2009, 07:35 PM
#17
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38 Boeing captains were involuntarily excessed on 8-02. That includes 3 DC10 FO flexes and 1 MD11 FO flex. The remaining 34 were active Captains. If you know the most junior remaining captain from 8-02(that wasn't excessed), you will notice that only 33 of those 34 are still in the left seat of the Boeing. That's because one(1) of the most senior was excessed to ANC. He is already trained and he is the only one so far. I don't know if he is getting POP. If he is, I would be convinced. BTW, the most junior of the 38 is scheduled dead last in the summer of 2010.
02-28-2009, 08:39 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
38 Boeing captains were involuntarily excessed on 8-02. That includes 3 DC10 FO flexes and 1 MD11 FO flex. The remaining 34 were active Captains. If you know the most junior remaining captain from 8-02(that wasn't excessed), you will notice that only 33 of those 34 are still in the left seat of the Boeing. That's because one(1) of the most senior was excessed to ANC. He is already trained and he is the only one so far. I don't know if he is getting POP. If he is, I would be convinced. BTW, the most junior of the 38 is scheduled dead last in the summer of 2010.
02-28-2009, 10:02 PM
#19
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Posts: 77
Forget it.
After some research, it looks like there were 38 Boeing 727 captains excessed on Posting 8-02 and only 33 were active captains. It's hard to figure out where everyone started without an old master seniority list. The other 5 were WB FO flexes on passover pay. None of the active captains have started their downgrade training yet.
We'll have to wait to see if anyone is awarded passover pay because they weren't trained in the correct order. As of now, they aren't scheduled in reverse seniority order like the contract says.
After some research, it looks like there were 38 Boeing 727 captains excessed on Posting 8-02 and only 33 were active captains. It's hard to figure out where everyone started without an old master seniority list. The other 5 were WB FO flexes on passover pay. None of the active captains have started their downgrade training yet.
We'll have to wait to see if anyone is awarded passover pay because they weren't trained in the correct order. As of now, they aren't scheduled in reverse seniority order like the contract says.
03-01-2009, 05:07 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: FedEx
Posts: 666
Unless you go to the same seat, same domicile out of seniority order you aren't going to be eligible for passover pay in these hypothetical situations. If you are in danger of being excessed to a lower paying seat it is in your best interest to bid a seat with the longest training letter so you can hold on to your current seat the longest.
Then, just before training, be sure to go horse riding around butterflies so you can delay the pay cut even longer.
FJ
Then, just before training, be sure to go horse riding around butterflies so you can delay the pay cut even longer.
FJ
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