FDX - Excess Bid Strategies
02-26-2009, 05:33 PM
#21
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
But I agree, it would be nice to see something in the newsletter to stuff away for future reference like the calendar info provides on hours of service.
02-26-2009, 05:40 PM
#22
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
02-26-2009, 05:53 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
That's an odd thing to say. Have you ever actually called contract admin? Doesn't sound like it. I have, probably 25-30 times. And, the same guy always answers. Of course, he usually doesn't give me the answer I want to hear. But, at least he's consistent.
02-26-2009, 06:05 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Fr8Hauler,
I'm not suggesting to go in to this blindly. What I'm simply saying is read the section that you have a question about, in this case excess bid, then if there are still questions ask the appropriate source (contract admin).
Regarding different answers to questions asked does this come from your perspective of being in the office during these supposed conversations or does it just make for easy headline material in this forum. I think some guys have gotten answers to questions from contract admin and they may not have liked the answer. But its just that, its their best answer based on working knowledge of the contract and having dealt with these issues on a recurring basis.
There will certainly be numerous questions regarding this bid from every pilot that may be affected. So no two answers may be the same for every situation. I don't believe that they could write anything to fit every pilots situation.
Lastly, the CBA is in plain language and not written in legalese, so to put anything out other than the contract language could unfortunately dilute or alter its intent.
What's a sea lawyer anyway?
I'm not suggesting to go in to this blindly. What I'm simply saying is read the section that you have a question about, in this case excess bid, then if there are still questions ask the appropriate source (contract admin).
Regarding different answers to questions asked does this come from your perspective of being in the office during these supposed conversations or does it just make for easy headline material in this forum. I think some guys have gotten answers to questions from contract admin and they may not have liked the answer. But its just that, its their best answer based on working knowledge of the contract and having dealt with these issues on a recurring basis.
There will certainly be numerous questions regarding this bid from every pilot that may be affected. So no two answers may be the same for every situation. I don't believe that they could write anything to fit every pilots situation.
Lastly, the CBA is in plain language and not written in legalese, so to put anything out other than the contract language could unfortunately dilute or alter its intent.
What's a sea lawyer anyway?
02-26-2009, 06:20 PM
#25
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
We need a multi-faceted strategy to protect our financial interests in the wake of these upcoming excess bids. Some questions I have:
1. If you bid to relieve the excess and are awarded ANC, does the company buy your house?
2. If you bid to HKG to scam passover pay, in what circumstances would the company send you and when wouldn't they? What if 100 people bid W/B Captain in HKG? Knowing that this can't create an excess in an FDA would the company send you?
3. If you are excessed from MD-11 CAPT and your next choice is 777 F/O, are you seatlocked? Is that considered a downbid?
I think we all need to come up with options for various situations. I know there are lots of folks on here smarter than me, so let me say thanks in advance for any insight.
1. If you bid to relieve the excess and are awarded ANC, does the company buy your house?
2. If you bid to HKG to scam passover pay, in what circumstances would the company send you and when wouldn't they? What if 100 people bid W/B Captain in HKG? Knowing that this can't create an excess in an FDA would the company send you?
3. If you are excessed from MD-11 CAPT and your next choice is 777 F/O, are you seatlocked? Is that considered a downbid?
I think we all need to come up with options for various situations. I know there are lots of folks on here smarter than me, so let me say thanks in advance for any insight.
#1. Whether you bid to relieve or are involuntarily excessed, the company will buy your house as long as:
a.) You elect the third party purchase plan within 4 months of your activation AND you have met the requirements of marketing assistance.
b.) The property is either a single family home or condo located in the US and isn't a mobile home or boat.
c.) The home must be complete and not have unacceptable levels of radon gas.
d.) No synthetic or stucco homes.
e.) Not more than 1.25 million (hah!)
F.) Historical homesites (could be a problem)
g.) Home must be 100% residential use (i.e. no commercial property)
h.) Cant be in such poor condition that appraisers, realtors, or other service providers refuse the assignment.
(*and you must move to within 100NM of your new domicile and then be able to prove with significant documentation that fact)
#2. Your guess is a good as anyones. I think thats why the will put out the HK bid as a vacancy. It seems it will close after the excess leaving in doubt the fact that you might create an excess thereby minimizing the potential of massive passover pay issues for guys who want to roll the bones. I am less inclined to bid it in hopes of getting the POP when I know they are going to fill a certain number with live bodies.
#3. If you are excessed or down/lateral bid to relieve an excess you do not incur an ITU training freeze.
There are a couple other caveats on the move package #1 that apply to excess bids from FDA's and other exceptions if you have already received a move package.
Hope this helps.
02-26-2009, 06:21 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 777 F/O
Posts: 340
Nope, not a Navy guy. I'm guessing you are though. I'm also guessing you will not get excessed or be in a position where bidding to relieve excess will be helpfull, and then need to interpret the many if/then/and/or cross referenced statements in the relocation expenses section before comparing that to the ANC side letter and coming up with a plan. If you don't think the union should come up with some FAQs or a flowchart, rather than field thousands of calls, then you and I disagree.
02-26-2009, 06:40 PM
#27
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Sorry for the thread creep 990!
#1. Whether you bid to relieve or are involuntarily excessed, the company will buy your house as long as:
a.) You elect the third party purchase plan within 4 months of your activation AND you have met the requirements of marketing assistance.
b.) The property is either a single family home or condo located in the US and isn't a mobile home or boat.
c.) The home must be complete and not have unacceptable levels of radon gas.
d.) No synthetic or stucco homes.
e.) Not more than 1.25 million (hah!)
F.) Historical homesites (could be a problem)
g.) Home must be 100% residential use (i.e. no commercial property)
h.) Cant be in such poor condition that appraisers, realtors, or other service providers refuse the assignment.
#1. Whether you bid to relieve or are involuntarily excessed, the company will buy your house as long as:
a.) You elect the third party purchase plan within 4 months of your activation AND you have met the requirements of marketing assistance.
b.) The property is either a single family home or condo located in the US and isn't a mobile home or boat.
c.) The home must be complete and not have unacceptable levels of radon gas.
d.) No synthetic or stucco homes.
e.) Not more than 1.25 million (hah!)
F.) Historical homesites (could be a problem)
g.) Home must be 100% residential use (i.e. no commercial property)
h.) Cant be in such poor condition that appraisers, realtors, or other service providers refuse the assignment.
Excluded by b.?
02-26-2009, 06:41 PM
#28
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
Sect 24 Filing of Vacancies
Section 11 Training
Section 6 Relocation Expenses
I just think there are too many variables regarding this issue and how each pilot is impacted may be somewhat different. There's a boat load of info to hunt through to make sure you don't screw the pooch on this thing all while trying to maximize your potential benefit, if there is one!
I think they would actually prefer to be called so you can speak of your specific situation with them rather than publishing a readers version digest and laundry list of what ifs.
But I understand we like(love) checklists and what to do in case of an emergency so we can be precise and accurate in our assessment... its in our blood. I'm just not sure if that will happen.
When I open the contract I just use the old "Find" tab and enter the word or phrase and it usually will bring you to all the applicable sections painfully, one at a time. Then I just make my own notes.
02-26-2009, 06:49 PM
#29
Contract 2021
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 777 - Both
Posts: 442
Wrong, and uh, wrong. I'm almost certainly going to pull my Captains epaulets off for this thing and have been looking pretty hard at the specific contract sections for the past 6 months. Both the move package and excess bidding procedures. I have a lot more to lose in this game than some guy sitting over in the ALPA building answering our phone calls so I guess I felt the need to understand it myself.
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