FDX - Excess Bid Strategies
03-01-2009, 12:05 PM
#141
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 177
However, I believe that if the company cancels an award, those pilots that had their award canceled would be eligible for POP pursuant with Sec 24.E.4 (Cancellation of Awards). I'm not a lawyer or contract expert so make sure you check with one...
SG
SG
03-01-2009, 12:11 PM
#142
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
That is true if someone junior was/is activated off of that posting into a position that the affected pilot had bid higher than their current seat on their standing bid at the time the bid closed. Ie., you are an M11FO and your bid had H30C, M11, M30C, L11C, A11C, 57C, 27C, you could held one of those seats on the excess or a subsequent posting, and of course a junior pilot activates from the same or subsequent posting.
03-01-2009, 12:17 PM
#143
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Yeah, but what he is saying, to get the company to reevaluate the thought of the early retirment possibilities, this could be some leverage, if instead of saving money with 20 new slots, they are losing money in the upwards of some 1000 guys. Unfortunately I don't think we have enough folks that are actually willing to go to cover for the other 980 that will be on passover.
"was that five, or was that six?"
"was that five, or was that six?"
03-01-2009, 12:30 PM
#144
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
Only those 150 pilots who are actually excessed, regardless of forced or not, and then don't get to go to HKG, will be eligible for the passover pay. 20 +/- depending on the company's whims will actually go to HKG and the rest would then get passover pay in accordance to some virtual training letter.
03-01-2009, 12:31 PM
#145
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Hey!! I just thought of something...
Maybe the company needs to hire "professional negotiators", as well. If I remember right, one of our proposals in the last CBA,was to do away with passover pay by allowing guys to bid for their training dates, by seniority.
If they only would've used a professional...
Maybe the company needs to hire "professional negotiators", as well. If I remember right, one of our proposals in the last CBA,was to do away with passover pay by allowing guys to bid for their training dates, by seniority.
If they only would've used a professional...
03-01-2009, 01:28 PM
#146
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
That is accurate per the cba and settlement which is why I think the company subsequently released the bid the way they did. The way they've set it up, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from awarding all of the eligible pilots HKG bids on the excess, canceling 09-01, and then canceling the excess training awards in inverse seniority order up to the number of pilots they ultimately desire without paying a dime of passover. Neither the cba or the settlement would be triggered under this scenario because no one would have been denied an award pursuant to 24.C.6.c.
03-01-2009, 02:00 PM
#147
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
I don't follow you. So you are saying 100+ guys will be going to HKG if they bid it? I don't think so.
03-01-2009, 02:21 PM
#148
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Neither do I. There is a difference between being awarded something on a bid and actually going to training for it, just as everybody except the HKG pilots learned on 07-03. The company has thought this through and set things up things up so that they won't have to pay POP nor send more people to HKG than they wish to. There is nothing stopping them from awarding everyone eligible pilot who bids HKG on the excess a spot, later canceling 09-01 before it closes, and then going back and canceling the training of the pilots they don't want in HKG in inverse seniority order. That series of events gets them what they want without paying POP or physically putting excess bodies in HKG. It's greasy, but it's legal per a cba that wasn't written by either side for the type of situation we are in presently.
So, in your scenario...The guys that have their training cancelled, don't get excessed anywhere, after all?
03-01-2009, 03:03 PM
#150
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
The short answer is that I think they will end up with whatever else they could have held on the excess, but I'm re-reading the 07-03 settlement to verify that that is in fact correct. Section 4 of the part regarding 24.E.4. covers it and I have to think about what exactly it means here. If I'm wrong, it still means people are gambling bidding HKG but the odds of some undetermined # of people getting POP would certainly go up.
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