fedupbusdriver

Strike two.......

kronan

Trying to translate the thoughts more
The nugget has to be +1 of the current holders, the relative seniority of the bidders doesn't matter. If an ANC Nugget is excessed and denied a HKG slot to avoid creating an excess in that seat, then he gets POP.
I don't know what seniority band of guys are nuggets, but, if you're above 3922, and you want to play the HKG POP game seems like you could go for it.

IF the excess bid closes after the vacancy bid, that Capt # might be lower, all dependent upon the fear factor of my fellow pilots.

If an excessed pilot is denied an award to an FDA crew position, pursuant to Section 24.C.6.a. or C.6.c., (above), and he has insufficient seniority to be awarded or assigned another crew position with the same or higher rate of pay, he shall be entitled to passover pay.

Haywood JB

The problem with all of the speculation is the excess bids will close prior to the vacany bid in HKG. So if you get excessed from ANC, you will have to bid HKG Capt at 100% and hope that your seniority can hold it when that bid closes...the length of the vacancy bid is going to be what catches some of the POP game players with their shorts down.

Daniel Larusso

I was operating under the scenario presented in Jetblack's post where 25 people bid HKG Capt. on the excess bid, there's still 20 HKG Capt. vacancies open on 09-01, and the company only wants 20 additional Captains in HKG. They could award the 25 Capt. slots on the excess bid legally per the contract because they have now said that HKG is not in excess. They cannot change the 09-01 after it's release per the CBA, but they can cancel it to avoid potential getting 45 additional bodies where they only want 20. That would still leave 5 extra pilots who they can get rid of by canceling their training awards like they did to us on 07-03. As long as they do it in inverse seniority order at least 30 days prior to their training dates, it's legal.

Now if somebody junior to these pilots was activated off the same or a subsequent posting than passover pay would be triggered, but in my scenario the company eliminated that potential by canceling 09-01 after the excess bid process was complete. I'm not saying that is what the company will do as none of us knows what they want to do with that FDA, but I was just trying to illustrate what they can do. This contract wasn't written by either party with the idea of negative movement in mind.

R1200RT

Won't happen. We'll have two or three excesses before the vacancy bid closes. Hold on going to be a wild ride.

MX727

8. A flex instructor/PCA may bump another pilot from his assigned trip(s) for PDO purposes to the extent required to maintain proficiency in the crew status in which he conducts training, and the following shall apply:

c. Bumping a captain or first officer seat which the instructor is qualified for but can not hold based upon his system seniority, shall require an LCA, SCA, or PCA (who is a captain by seniority) to be in the other seat.

In each airplane there are many F/O Flexes that cannot or do not hold the Captain seat on the line. They have gone through training and are "qualified as Captains" and instruct other Captains and F/Os. They are not paid as Captains and they are not allowed to fly as Captains except with an LCA/SCA/PCA in the other seat. Since they can't hold the seat, they can't pick up open time or get trips in any way other than PDO bumps, thus the quoted section applies.

That same thing is happening in the 757, except the flexes don't hold either seat on the line and thus, can't fly the line except with an LCA or perform PCA duties. They can still flex though.

FDXLAG

No offense intended; but you are the guy who says the union shouldn't splain things to us aren't you?

Let me explain; the most Jr Capt we have is a HKG WB Capt. All guys eligible for POP for HKG Capt are senior to him. No way will anybody Jr to this guy get a HKG WB Capt slot. ANYone senior to him and excessed can either go to HKG or be eligble for POP if they desire.

Jetblack

I think you meant "They can still flex though."

MX727

Fixed it, thanks.

kronan

No, what I said is that the union shouldn't suggest ways to game the system for folks who think they can get passover pay w/out having to worry whether they will wind up in HKG.


So, overall do you think the folks on APC have given some useful info/thoughts on the upcoming bids. And if so, why do we need the validation of a union explanation.

Bid to excess and you go to training in seniority order (junior activation of POP a player)
Bid current seat at 100% w/ other seats after it and get excessed and go to training in reverse seniority order (no junior activating POP)
Bid HKG and get denied it to avoid creating an excess in that slot and get POP. (creates a VTL to determine the POP start date)

Bottom line is bid what you are willing to do