Long Term Training out...
02-27-2009, 04:59 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Position: seated, but sometimes I get up and walk around
Posts: 96
I don't have any of the long term training info in front of me, but what is the
seniority of the 9 being trained for the FE seat, are they the most senior of those going to the FE seat, or junior ? Why even train 9 if all will be furloughed soon (unless they are too senior to be furloughed).
As far as "critical in their seats", I have heard that the Airbus is flying a lot more hours than it has in the past, and in talking with the MD-11 FO while commuting this morning he said that he has flown every reserve day he has been available for the past few weeks...The schoolhouse will be packed with people in training which will be less people on the line which is also helping against a furlough....In talking with another CA jumpseater about 9 people being trained, he explained that it is because they don't have the instructors available for more than that at this time...not sure if that was something the company said or his own opinion. I tend to be pessimistic, (I would rather be pleasently surprised) but I don't think the "F" card will be played just yet and probably not at all....Just my opinion..... Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, been up all night and gotta get some sleep....
seniority of the 9 being trained for the FE seat, are they the most senior of those going to the FE seat, or junior ? Why even train 9 if all will be furloughed soon (unless they are too senior to be furloughed).
As far as "critical in their seats", I have heard that the Airbus is flying a lot more hours than it has in the past, and in talking with the MD-11 FO while commuting this morning he said that he has flown every reserve day he has been available for the past few weeks...The schoolhouse will be packed with people in training which will be less people on the line which is also helping against a furlough....In talking with another CA jumpseater about 9 people being trained, he explained that it is because they don't have the instructors available for more than that at this time...not sure if that was something the company said or his own opinion. I tend to be pessimistic, (I would rather be pleasently surprised) but I don't think the "F" card will be played just yet and probably not at all....Just my opinion..... Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, been up all night and gotta get some sleep....
02-27-2009, 04:27 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
I don't have any of the long term training info in front of me, but what is the
seniority of the 9 being trained for the FE seat, are they the most senior of those going to the FE seat, or junior ? Why even train 9 if all will be furloughed soon (unless they are too senior to be furloughed).
As far as "critical in their seats", I have heard that the Airbus is flying a lot more hours than it has in the past, and in talking with the MD-11 FO while commuting this morning he said that he has flown every reserve day he has been available for the past few weeks...The schoolhouse will be packed with people in training which will be less people on the line which is also helping against a furlough....In talking with another CA jumpseater about 9 people being trained, he explained that it is because they don't have the instructors available for more than that at this time...not sure if that was something the company said or his own opinion. I tend to be pessimistic, (I would rather be pleasently surprised) but I don't think the "F" card will be played just yet and probably not at all....Just my opinion..... Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, been up all night and gotta get some sleep....
seniority of the 9 being trained for the FE seat, are they the most senior of those going to the FE seat, or junior ? Why even train 9 if all will be furloughed soon (unless they are too senior to be furloughed).
As far as "critical in their seats", I have heard that the Airbus is flying a lot more hours than it has in the past, and in talking with the MD-11 FO while commuting this morning he said that he has flown every reserve day he has been available for the past few weeks...The schoolhouse will be packed with people in training which will be less people on the line which is also helping against a furlough....In talking with another CA jumpseater about 9 people being trained, he explained that it is because they don't have the instructors available for more than that at this time...not sure if that was something the company said or his own opinion. I tend to be pessimistic, (I would rather be pleasently surprised) but I don't think the "F" card will be played just yet and probably not at all....Just my opinion..... Sorry if the above jumps around a bit, been up all night and gotta get some sleep....
"The following is the detailed list of training classes associated with the above system bids. Please refer to Article 10.C.1a-h of the Agreement for information pertaining to the bidding of Long Term Training. In this bid, A300 Captains and First Officers, MD11 ANC First Officers, and 747-400 First
Officers are being designated as critical positions. Any crewmember leaving these critical positions who is bypassed for an earlier class date that he/she had bid for, and had the seniority to hold, will be pay protected for the earlier class. This provision is being invoked to ensure that sufficient crews are available to operate the network schedule.
Due to instructor availability, the majority of DC8 long term training will be bid at a later date. Any crewmember awarded a DC8 position in the above system bids, and requires long term training, but is not awarded a training date in this bid, will be contacted about a future training bid. Please note that only nine DC8 Second Officers requiring long term training will be awarded a training date at this time."
Like I previously posted, the DC-8 instructors were decimated. That is a fact. The A300 flying is way up (more than during either peak 2007 or 2008) Thus "critical". Simply means company doesn't have to release them in seniority order to train on a non critical seat on another fleet. I.E ANC MD-11 F/O who was awarded a non critical DC-8 S/O seat that doesn't have enough instructors anyway.
02-27-2009, 06:01 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
From the UPS Bid info line;
"The following is the detailed list of training classes associated with the above system bids. Please refer to Article 10.C.1a-h of the Agreement for information pertaining to the bidding of Long Term Training. In this bid, A300 Captains and First Officers, MD11 ANC First Officers, and 747-400 First
Officers are being designated as critical positions. Any crewmember leaving these critical positions who is bypassed for an earlier class date that he/she had bid for, and had the seniority to hold, will be pay protected for the earlier class. This provision is being invoked to ensure that sufficient crews are available to operate the network schedule.
Due to instructor availability, the majority of DC8 long term training will be bid at a later date. Any crewmember awarded a DC8 position in the above system bids, and requires long term training, but is not awarded a training date in this bid, will be contacted about a future training bid. Please note that only nine DC8 Second Officers requiring long term training will be awarded a training date at this time."
Like I previously posted, the DC-8 instructors were decimated. That is a fact. The A300 flying is way up (more than during either peak 2007 or 2008) Thus "critical". Simply means company doesn't have to release them in seniority order to train on a non critical seat on another fleet. I.E ANC MD-11 F/O who was awarded a non critical DC-8 S/O seat that doesn't have enough instructors anyway.
"The following is the detailed list of training classes associated with the above system bids. Please refer to Article 10.C.1a-h of the Agreement for information pertaining to the bidding of Long Term Training. In this bid, A300 Captains and First Officers, MD11 ANC First Officers, and 747-400 First
Officers are being designated as critical positions. Any crewmember leaving these critical positions who is bypassed for an earlier class date that he/she had bid for, and had the seniority to hold, will be pay protected for the earlier class. This provision is being invoked to ensure that sufficient crews are available to operate the network schedule.
Due to instructor availability, the majority of DC8 long term training will be bid at a later date. Any crewmember awarded a DC8 position in the above system bids, and requires long term training, but is not awarded a training date in this bid, will be contacted about a future training bid. Please note that only nine DC8 Second Officers requiring long term training will be awarded a training date at this time."
Like I previously posted, the DC-8 instructors were decimated. That is a fact. The A300 flying is way up (more than during either peak 2007 or 2008) Thus "critical". Simply means company doesn't have to release them in seniority order to train on a non critical seat on another fleet. I.E ANC MD-11 F/O who was awarded a non critical DC-8 S/O seat that doesn't have enough instructors anyway.
I'm not taking anything for granted and in fact renewed my CFI earlier today (just in case
) BUT I don't see anything new implying furloughs are indeed coming... Hope I'm right...
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 02-28-2009 at 05:16 PM.
02-28-2009, 01:33 PM
#25
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 5
Talk about your all time bonehead ideas!!
Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing. HAHA You do realize that there are other jobs out there that pay a lot more than flight instructing, right? HAHA
Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?
That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down.
02-28-2009, 01:44 PM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
Let me get this straight, you went out and renewed your CFI, just in case you get furloughed from UPS???
Talk about your all time bonehead ideas!!
Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing. HAHA You do realize that there are other jobs out there that pay a lot more than flight instructing, right? HAHA
Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?
That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down.
Talk about your all time bonehead ideas!!
Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing. HAHA You do realize that there are other jobs out there that pay a lot more than flight instructing, right? HAHA
Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?
That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down.
with a typical lifestyle (reads "bills") of a pilot working for UPS. Will working as a CFI even come close to making ends meet? I don't care how much one has tighten his belt, it is just not going to cut it.
Playing piano at a *****-house might be one of the first thing I'd look into.
02-28-2009, 05:14 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Let me get this straight, you went out and renewed your CFI, just in case you get furloughed from UPS???
Talk about your all time bonehead ideas!!
Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing. HAHA You do realize that there are other jobs out there that pay a lot more than flight instructing, right? HAHA
Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?
That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down.
Talk about your all time bonehead ideas!!
Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing. HAHA You do realize that there are other jobs out there that pay a lot more than flight instructing, right? HAHA
Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?
That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down.
“…Why would a UPS pilot put his ticket on the line and go back to slave wage instructing…”
What are you talking about me “putting my ticket on the line” to renew my CFI? It’s a standard renewal every CFI does every two years; obviously you know nothing about it….
Oh, by the way, there were 5 of us
renewing it together at the CFI clinic. Two guys from UPS, one from FedEx, one SWA and one Mesa pilot – we’ve all known each other for ~14 years or so and will probably keep renewing our CFIs every two years for as long as we feel like; if anything it’s always an excuse to get together for some beer drinking. 
I've been saying all along that I do not believe there will be a furlough. Just read my previous posts. I said I renewed my CFI “just in case” but forgot to add the “sarcasm smiley” within that sentence because if you look at my previous posts I’ve been saying all along that I do not believe we will furlough.
Besides, why did you have to create a new account just to jump on me? Obviously you're regular here and had to hide under the new screen name...
“…Not to mention, why would you think any flight school would hire you anyway?...”
I've actually been teaching ground school part time for several years, so “getting hired” wouldn't be a problem... and yes, I even checked with my CP before I signed up for it to make sure that was all right...
“…That's what is wrong with this industry. Too many people unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation - they stick with it and drag the profession down…”
Actually what’s wrong with this industry is people like you, very judgmental toward others yet unwilling to look in the mirror. I’d like to know in what way am I dragging this profession down? I’ve spent years flying for the commuters, and then I flew several years for a couple of passenger airlines before coming here.
Yet the most fun I ever had was while flight instructing and yes I did enjoy it and didn’t do it just to “build time.” So how is that dragging anyone down when I'm simply staying in touch with my old friends and help them out part time whenever I feel like?
Everyone has their own prerogatives so when you talk about people dragging this profession down please look in the mirror.
Oh, and the part about me being “unwilling to do anything else even when things are very bad in aviation” is way off – you got it all backward.
You see, before I even got into the flying profession I worked more than five years as an electrical engineer designing and maintaining electrical components of mining equipment. I was making very good money and it wasn’t until UPS that I was able to surpass those paychecks - yet I hated every minute of it…
So I decided to do something I thought I’d really like.
I was right, you and SLP are wrong.
02-28-2009, 07:22 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
"If instructing was the most fun you ever had, why did you leave? "
I never left. Am still doing it and I still don't know why it bothers you so much I am enjoying that? Have plenty of hobbies too.
"find a hobbie, you seem to respond to every thread on every sub-forums on this site."
Get a life, stop responding if it bothers you... I try to be polite but when you start lecturing me on what I should be and shouldn't be enjoying, well then the discussion is pointless...
I never left. Am still doing it and I still don't know why it bothers you so much I am enjoying that? Have plenty of hobbies too.
"find a hobbie, you seem to respond to every thread on every sub-forums on this site."
Get a life, stop responding if it bothers you... I try to be polite but when you start lecturing me on what I should be and shouldn't be enjoying, well then the discussion is pointless...
02-28-2009, 07:39 PM
#30
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Posts: 245
"If instructing was the most fun you ever had, why did you leave? "
I never left. Am still doing it and I still don't know why it bothers you so much I am enjoying that? Have plenty of hobbies too.
"find a hobbie, you seem to respond to every thread on every sub-forums on this site."
Get a life, stop responding if it bothers you... I try to be polite but when you start lecturing me on what I should be and shouldn't be enjoying, well then the discussion is pointless...
I never left. Am still doing it and I still don't know why it bothers you so much I am enjoying that? Have plenty of hobbies too.
"find a hobbie, you seem to respond to every thread on every sub-forums on this site."
Get a life, stop responding if it bothers you... I try to be polite but when you start lecturing me on what I should be and shouldn't be enjoying, well then the discussion is pointless...
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