Gunter

Exactly....

P Gibbons

Huh?

Posting links to other pilot's schedules isn't a winning strategy. It will just cause people to block their schedules. Asking senior pilots to stop bidding high paying schedules (carryover) isn't going to happen. In other words, you are pi$$ing in the wind.

The only way to stop carryover is to have an agreement that caps monthly flying. The rest is just going to give you ulcers.

Think of the "Serenity prayer."

Again, I am junior. I have been furloughed before and I've seen the senior guys eat their young. I hope neither happen here. While alot of you are upset with BLG cuts, it is the primary thing keeping everyone employed (just my opinion). Luckily we have two junior bases as well.

FDXLAG

So BLG cuts are keeping pilots employed but talking about keeping BLG lower across the board is a bad thing. Peer pressure has no effect so don't worry if your daughter is hanging with the biker crowd. No offense to you nice gentleman riding your beamers.

PS The only way to have an agreement to cap BLG is to talk about with the union and anywhere else you can drum up support. It won't happen tomorrow but it may happen in the next contract with enough grass roots support.

Cooter

This would not be difficult to do at all as far as capping BLG on carryover lines. Carryover trips would not need to change at all. Those bidding carryover and protecting it would simply be able to go into the Conflict Input Window and list the trips you want dropped to stay within the "normal" BLG (Sorry if this has already been said--I missed it). I'd also heard floated an option by which if you bid carryover, you would involuntarily be assigned a secondary line for the next month in which case the company builds up your carryover month to normal BLG. That won't float--that's just another secondary line the company has to build ie more work for them. And personally, I think that option sucks.

The bottom line is ...pilots getting 50% more pay than their peers needs is a major crock of schitt. I don't hold it against them for doing so given the existing CBA. But, in my opinion, the negotiating committee needs to make this whole carryover issue a dealbreaker next time around, PERIOD!

BTW, is anyone aware of another airline whose carryover works the way ours does with pilots able to work 150 % every month?

R1200RT

None taken,

Right now every swinging dik with a zero M/U balance can pick up 6hrs a month. Is that in the contract anywhere?

AFW_MD11

25.L.5.e.

A pilot is not eligible for a make-up assignment that exceeds

his make-up eligibility by more than 6 CH.

(so, if his M/U eligibility is zero, he can pick up 6 CH?)

also

25.L.7.

Trading With Open Time
A pilot shall have the ability to submit to trade his trip(s) for
another trip(s) in open time. The net effect of any trade(s) in
a bid period may not increase his BLG, as published, by more

than 12 CH.

(so, again, if M/U bank is zero, he can trade UP and add 12 CH?)

like piggies to the trough.....

P Gibbons

AFW,

You can only go negative 6 hours each bid period.

The other section refers to trades. You still can't go over minus 6.

Lag, I hear what you are saying. I think it would be great if everyone would sacrifice. I just don't see it happening. We can't even get people not to fly DPs. We will always have carryover trips. I think we could have alot less, yet the company doesn't seem compelled to limit carryover. The only way to "solve" this problem is for an LOA that implements a monthly cap. I would be in favor of doing this for a year or so. If we still have manning issues, we could keep the cap for longer.

I don't think now is the time for peer pressure or posting people's schedules. I don't think pi$$ing off senior pilots will help us with furlough mitigation. There are alot of folks that think we should furlough now. I've flown with alot of them. But suit yourself.

I am with you. I may be furlough fodder myself, and at the very least would get sent backwards. This definitely effects me. I just don't think these methods are effective.

NoKoolAid

If I understand correctly, UPS bids for 2 months -- 56 or 60 day periods.

My personal take is I like it.

Bidding every single month is a pain in the arse. This would also reduce the "crack effect" of excess pay from carryover sought by the most senior among us. Should create more lines and retain more guys/gals.

Additionally, planning ahead for important events would be a nice change since we get our scheds 2-weeks or 1-week (VTO) before the next bid month. On many occasions, I was sweating vacation plans and important family events. A common theme for all of us.

The downside is getting stuck with a schedule you don't like for 8 weeks. Such is life.

I support the change for contract 2010 -- of course that really means 2012.

Support/Reject 2 month scheds?

FDXLAG

Sounds great, unless you finish training after the bid closes. Can you imagine what a custom line for Nov and Dec would look like.

Popeye

I am amused at how we are so quick to adopt some morsel of a work rule that seems it might work today, when a year ago the subject would not have merited a second thought.

A two-month bid line? I don't know. How will it affect bidding for recurrent training, vacation, getting time off for those significant events that just pop up? Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. Oh, but it does fix the carry-over issue that is hot on everyone's mind right now. Were we as worked up about carry over and bow waves last year, when things were not quite as bad? "Carry over" an addictive drug? Probably. But the point must be conceded that we have always loved carry over here. How did guys make $300 K/year back in the '80s without flying carry over, draft and volunteer. Things have certainly changed since the FPA days and now ALPA. But our affinity for extra money has not.

So the company has floated the furlough idea and slung it at the walls. Apparently it has stuck. I for one don't think it will happen. There goes 2 cents for some one to jump on. As has been suggested here, without a realignment bid, how can the company furlough a significant number of us to make it cost effective to do so? Where is the 100 Airbus excess bid? Even when it comes, I'll want to see the training letter. How soon before we see anyone on the street? 6 months? Peak is in 6 months! Maybe a year, if ever.

And where are we now? We are feeding at the buffet the company set out for us. In one dish are the junior guys. Some are arguing to cut bait, others to fight for every last man/woman. But the feeding frenzy has started. Course number two, the seasoned pilots amongst us. Why don't they do the right thing and step aside before the young ones get canned? Chomp! And now it is the nasty "make up fliers". Yeah, lets get them, they're the culprits. We are doing such a good job of softening ourselves up that when 2010, or 2015, comes around we won't be able to find an ounce of concensus among any of us.

Flying 100 CH a month is ridiculous. But flying make up is no more against the CBA, than an over 60 pilot flying SIBA. Both are hazardous to the survival of the junior pilots among us, but certainly not illegal. If there is a way to convince our group to behave reasonably, and with some modicum of decency and unity, then maybe we'll come out of this crisis with our dignity and a worthwhile contract. Good Luck!