UPS - System Bid Question
02-10-2009, 11:53 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
3. If he is the most junior First Officer, then he will bid either A. or
B. If the crewmember bids option A, but is unable to hold any
position outlined by option A, the steps in option B shall be
used for this crewmember.
a. System-wide to displace a more junior Captain or First
Officer
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
on current equipment
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
on most recent equipment
(3) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
b. Within present domicile
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE
on his current equipment in present domicile
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE
in present domicile
*(2a)Displaces most junior First Officer system-wide*
*(3) Displaces most junior crewmember system-wide*
(4) FurloughedB. If the crewmember bids option A, but is unable to hold any
position outlined by option A, the steps in option B shall be
used for this crewmember.
a. System-wide to displace a more junior Captain or First
Officer
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
on current equipment
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
on most recent equipment
(3) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer systemwide
b. Within present domicile
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE
on his current equipment in present domicile
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE
in present domicile
*(2a)Displaces most junior First Officer system-wide*
*(3) Displaces most junior crewmember system-wide*
02-10-2009, 11:55 AM
#12
New Hire
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: revolving door
Posts: 5
I've watched too long not to chime in...here it is straight from someone having had (in two weeks) 5 seat assignments in just over 2 yrs along with numbers straight from Manpower Planning a couple hours ago:
1. Displacements roll downhill. Yesterday, as someone put it was the Christmas Bid...in 13 days 60+ people on the bottom of ANC will be displaced by those above them...to the panel. Just because the bottom guy in the union got a vacancy (again for Christmas) doesn't mean his 'slot' on the panel is gone. 53 Capts and 20 FOs will decide whether they move domicile to keep $ or take a change in seat and the most junior Capts (in ANC) decide where they want to be senior FOs - ANC OR lower 48. IN ANY CASE ALL THESE GUYS KNOCK YOU (lester & co), ME, AND THE BOTTOM 400 FO DOWN THE TOTEM POLE.
2. 2606 will be lowest SDF FO; 2620 = lowest ONT FO; MIA is MIA (?) and 60ish numbers from yesterdays ANC list get bumped to/put back on the 8 panel. Numbers subject to change as people flip flop or wives/spouses encourage them to reconsider time away fr home/cash.
3. Once you accept our fate, think positively and address my other post on when we stop moving back...how do we get out of ANC.
1. Displacements roll downhill. Yesterday, as someone put it was the Christmas Bid...in 13 days 60+ people on the bottom of ANC will be displaced by those above them...to the panel. Just because the bottom guy in the union got a vacancy (again for Christmas) doesn't mean his 'slot' on the panel is gone. 53 Capts and 20 FOs will decide whether they move domicile to keep $ or take a change in seat and the most junior Capts (in ANC) decide where they want to be senior FOs - ANC OR lower 48. IN ANY CASE ALL THESE GUYS KNOCK YOU (lester & co), ME, AND THE BOTTOM 400 FO DOWN THE TOTEM POLE.
2. 2606 will be lowest SDF FO; 2620 = lowest ONT FO; MIA is MIA (?) and 60ish numbers from yesterdays ANC list get bumped to/put back on the 8 panel. Numbers subject to change as people flip flop or wives/spouses encourage them to reconsider time away fr home/cash.
3. Once you accept our fate, think positively and address my other post on when we stop moving back...how do we get out of ANC.
02-10-2009, 12:04 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
I thought the only way to go back to FE was to be displaced to FE. In the displacement bid can an FO bidding FE actually be awarded it?
Roberto, this is your quote from before.
"I think the number of additional FO's that end up as FE's after the displacement will about equal the number of senior FE's who receive bid awards. I think this number will be about 30 or so. It was 28.
From the Realignment Vacancy Bid, a lot of junior FE's will receive FO awards. That could be deceiving. After the Displacement Bid, because of their juniority, they will be displaced right back to the FE seat, along with those additional FO's replacing the senior FE's who left. There were 39 junior FE's who received FO awards.
Some CPT/FO's in SDF may choose downgrade over ANC, which will decrease the ANC numbers displaced." Like Salty...
If this is the way it works, the only openings are DC8 FE's when you get to the most junior FO's, then we have about 72 heading that way via displacement. UPS chose to draw down the CPT and FO positions but not the panel, therefore there are still 143 positions. (There were 140 on the RefSenList prior to 09-101. There are 73 now on the RefSenList prior to 09-201.) I know of several that would rather bid it because they are sick of the commute, I hope they are awarded.
Roberto, this is your quote from before.
"I think the number of additional FO's that end up as FE's after the displacement will about equal the number of senior FE's who receive bid awards. I think this number will be about 30 or so. It was 28.
From the Realignment Vacancy Bid, a lot of junior FE's will receive FO awards. That could be deceiving. After the Displacement Bid, because of their juniority, they will be displaced right back to the FE seat, along with those additional FO's replacing the senior FE's who left. There were 39 junior FE's who received FO awards.
Some CPT/FO's in SDF may choose downgrade over ANC, which will decrease the ANC numbers displaced." Like Salty...
If this is the way it works, the only openings are DC8 FE's when you get to the most junior FO's, then we have about 72 heading that way via displacement. UPS chose to draw down the CPT and FO positions but not the panel, therefore there are still 143 positions. (There were 140 on the RefSenList prior to 09-101. There are 73 now on the RefSenList prior to 09-201.) I know of several that would rather bid it because they are sick of the commute, I hope they are awarded.
02-10-2009, 12:05 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: SDF’s finest dive - Toasting Jungle
Posts: 182
If getting out of ANC with a front seat is the ultimate goal? That may take a while, IMO. That will probably take the ultimate economic reversal and hiring, again IMO.
And you are right, on the positive side, we are all still here, and could just as easily be on the other side of the fence looking in. I try to tell myself in 5 years will all of this REALLY matter? A bit, but in the big picture... probably not.
02-10-2009, 12:08 PM
#15
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: B747-400, Gear-Yanker
Posts: 23
Again, I'm just trying to interpret the Kentuckianderthal Cave Paintings, but it seems to me that as the Great Flush works its way through the stack the system junior guy, who is now a -400FO will be immediately bumped by the first senior guy to bump into ANC when he/she can no longer hold the lower 48. Now the sysem junior #2906 is an FE again, and the bump and funnel continues on it's current track, with the few exceptions for personal quality of life that will skew the numbers a few one way or the other... Capt->FO SDF (300, MD, Z, 757) -> MIA or ONT -> ANC (744, MD) -> -8FE as we all run out of musical chairs.
This is how the last bid shook out, and I see no reason to think this time won't be the same, despite the fact that everyone is now off probation. The only aberration last time was that guys/gals on probation were sent to the panel OUT OF SENIORITY in favor of not retraining junior probationary FO's in ANC. With the continued Fall of Man, the list will now be sedimentary for the most part with -8FE at the bottom, exclusive a few anomalies for commuter quality of life. The question of most junior system wide will be the vacancies left in the FE seat from the realignment that will be back-filled by displacees, most junior included. Only the front 2 seats in the -8 will not be backfilled per the displacement.
From the contract:
2. If he is the most junior First Officer, then he will bid either A. or
B. If the crewmember bids option A, but is unable to hold any position outlined by option A, the steps in option B shall be
used for this crewmember.
a. System-wide to displace a more junior Captain or First Officer
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer system-wide on current equipment (2) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer system-wide
b. Within present domicile
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE in his current equipment in present domicile
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE in present domicile
*(2a)Displaces most junior First Officer system-wide*
*(3) Displaces most junior crewmember system-wide*
(4) Furloughed
May the Force be with us all...
Just my 2-cents, and a pure guestimation of the damage...
Captch11
This is how the last bid shook out, and I see no reason to think this time won't be the same, despite the fact that everyone is now off probation. The only aberration last time was that guys/gals on probation were sent to the panel OUT OF SENIORITY in favor of not retraining junior probationary FO's in ANC. With the continued Fall of Man, the list will now be sedimentary for the most part with -8FE at the bottom, exclusive a few anomalies for commuter quality of life. The question of most junior system wide will be the vacancies left in the FE seat from the realignment that will be back-filled by displacees, most junior included. Only the front 2 seats in the -8 will not be backfilled per the displacement.
From the contract:
2. If he is the most junior First Officer, then he will bid either A. or
B. If the crewmember bids option A, but is unable to hold any position outlined by option A, the steps in option B shall be
used for this crewmember.
a. System-wide to displace a more junior Captain or First Officer
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer system-wide on current equipment (2) Displaces most junior Captain or First Officer system-wide
b. Within present domicile
(1) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE in his current equipment in present domicile
(2) Displaces most junior Captain or Second Officer/PFE in present domicile
*(2a)Displaces most junior First Officer system-wide*
*(3) Displaces most junior crewmember system-wide*
(4) Furloughed
May the Force be with us all...
Just my 2-cents, and a pure guestimation of the damage...
Captch11
02-10-2009, 12:30 PM
#17
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 38
The logic of everything rolling downhill and everyone junior in ANC going to the panel makes sense, but I just don't see how it can happen when reading the displacement language in the contract. Not to mention the company didn't have to award #2906 a 74Y FO award, so why would they do that if the plan was just to send him back to the panel?
I'm not claiming my "theory" is correct, just looking for other opinions. My head hurts from thinking too, I guess we'll all find out a week from Monday.
I'm not claiming my "theory" is correct, just looking for other opinions. My head hurts from thinking too, I guess we'll all find out a week from Monday.
02-10-2009, 12:33 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 FO
Posts: 137
Looks like I will be bumped out of Anc, but at least it gets me moved back to civilization. Even with the pay cut, things are so much cheaper in sdf it will be a wash. So bring on FE. I'll never work and I'll get to see the sun and my family. Just in time for summer. Last year there were a total of 4 days of sun in Anchorage. So good luck commuting guys......Bump away.
02-10-2009, 01:15 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Kickin it "C"old School in AK
Posts: 283
Looks like I will be bumped out of Anc, but at least it gets me moved back to civilization. Even with the pay cut, things are so much cheaper in sdf it will be a wash. So bring on FE. I'll never work and I'll get to see the sun and my family. Just in time for summer. Last year there were a total of 4 days of sun in Anchorage. So good luck commuting guys......Bump away.
1. The commute is easy
2. It never gets dark
3. It's always tank top and flip-flop wx
4. The stores never sell out of anything
5. UPS Medical coverage -- everyone is in network, in fact, there's
too many doctors to count
6. Everything is cheaper up here:
a. Car insurance
b. Homeowner's insurance is never denied/dropped due to volcanoes
c. Groceries are virtually free
d. Gasoline is even cheaper
e. Electricity, Gas, Water are next-to-nothing
f. Property tax -- what's that?
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