FedEx Trip Drops
02-04-2009, 07:54 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
It is the culture of this group to place no limits on the number of hours you can get paid for through carryover, makeup, trades, vacation buyback, etc. If you don't like this then recommend a change to the contract on the next go around. I distinctly remember MH telling us at a roadshow meeting after the last TA that through polling the NC was informed that "overwhelmingly" pilots do not want limits placed on their earning potential. I would say that I have to agree in principle. If guys want to kill themselves with 150 credit hours a month, let them, however we have too many pilots if that's the case. APC may just have a vocal minority because most guys I fly with really don't care.
This organization is fat and needs to be leaned out. I think that the best way would be an incentive program for the top earners to leave, but the company does not agree. They make the rules. It is their game.
-- Just another bug on the windshield of unbridled capitalism
This organization is fat and needs to be leaned out. I think that the best way would be an incentive program for the top earners to leave, but the company does not agree. They make the rules. It is their game.
-- Just another bug on the windshield of unbridled capitalism
02-04-2009, 10:15 AM
#22
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: MD-11
Posts: 18
I would be in favor of a cap system, but only for a limited time (six months? year?). As a whole, I like the current system. Work 100 hours one month, and 40 the next. Take off a month or two at a time and work harder in certain months. For me, it really is a good system. Carryover and large paychecks aren't a bad thing in good times and times will hopefully improve sometime soon. If we are still overmanned, this item could be readdressed. Is that a fair compromise???
02-04-2009, 11:13 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
I would be in favor of a cap system, but only for a limited time (six months? year?). As a whole, I like the current system. Work 100 hours one month, and 40 the next. Take off a month or two at a time and work harder in certain months. For me, it really is a good system. Carryover and large paychecks aren't a bad thing in good times and times will hopefully improve sometime soon. If we are still overmanned, this item could be readdressed. Is that a fair compromise???
Welcome. Now then. If guys were to do as you suggest, it could work. The problem as many here see it, is that the same guys pad their line with c/o, dft, vol, etc, etc, each and every month. As the senior guys usually have the pick of the lines, including the lines with c/o, they are primarily the ones with very large paychecks, by virtue of the extra flying. The junior guys, who are feeling the F word nipping at their heels, while at the same time seeing the extra flying that some of the senior guys are doing, are more than a little (and rightly so) upset. Anyway, that's how I see it. Again, Welcome.
JJ
02-04-2009, 11:15 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Another idea (I know, pie in the sky)--
Have a temporary 2 month average limit. Perhaps a max of 180 hrs credit in 2 months (average 90 hrs/month).
This would allow a couple of single departures in a month, perhaps due to carryover or a good open time deal, to push you way high one month but reign you back toward a reasonable average the next.
Have a temporary 2 month average limit. Perhaps a max of 180 hrs credit in 2 months (average 90 hrs/month).
This would allow a couple of single departures in a month, perhaps due to carryover or a good open time deal, to push you way high one month but reign you back toward a reasonable average the next.
02-04-2009, 11:23 AM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 757 Captain
Posts: 47
A cap and bank system, or similar vehicle, used as an attempt to mitigate carryover was overwhelmingly shot down by the membership as a whole, as least I remember hearing it that way, during both of the last series of contract negotiations. Obviously, times have changed, and opinions probably as well as to the efficacy (proper usage of that word?).
02-04-2009, 11:29 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
PG,
Welcome. Now then. If guys were to do as you suggest, it could work. The problem as many here see it, is that the same guys pad their line with c/o, dft, vol, etc, etc, each and every month. As the senior guys usually have the pick of the lines, including the lines with c/o, they are primarily the ones with very large paychecks, by virtue of the extra flying. The junior guys, who are feeling the F word nipping at their heels, while at the same time seeing the extra flying that some of the senior guys are doing, are more than a little (and rightly so) upset. Anyway, that's how I see it. Again, Welcome.
JJ
Welcome. Now then. If guys were to do as you suggest, it could work. The problem as many here see it, is that the same guys pad their line with c/o, dft, vol, etc, etc, each and every month. As the senior guys usually have the pick of the lines, including the lines with c/o, they are primarily the ones with very large paychecks, by virtue of the extra flying. The junior guys, who are feeling the F word nipping at their heels, while at the same time seeing the extra flying that some of the senior guys are doing, are more than a little (and rightly so) upset. Anyway, that's how I see it. Again, Welcome.
JJ
Quite a few junior guys with well over 100 hour months.
02-04-2009, 12:01 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
A cap and bank system, or similar vehicle, used as an attempt to mitigate carryover was overwhelmingly shot down by the membership as a whole, as least I remember hearing it that way, during both of the last series of contract negotiations. Obviously, times have changed, and opinions probably as well as to the efficacy (proper usage of that word?).
But how about as a way to temporarily mitigate our manning problem?
02-04-2009, 12:50 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 95
To those that don't have a problem with flying MU or extra in our current climate...
No one would dispute whether or not it is your right to do so. HOWEVER, doing so does, in fact, have ramifications.
As an example, I recently gave a ride to a guy w/about a hundred or so guys below him. Wife, one child, one on the way. Left a commuter to come to Purple and thought he'd hit the lottery. When I asked him what a furlough would mean to him he said it wouldn't be pretty. I wish all of you who think it's OK to fly makeup/extra right now could look that guy in the eye and say just that. Essentially you're saying "yah, you and I work for the same company, but I don't give a *blank blank* about you or your family. Have a nice life."
His story is one among many (instead of Joe the Plumber, just think of him as "Bill the pilot"). You can choose to help that guy out or you can choose to turn a blind eye and pretend there are no consequences to your actions.
When will you have an opportunity to show your true character like this? When the economy bounces back will you be able to say "I did my part to help my fellow FX pilots" or "well it must've sucked for those guys, but hey, I flew my CO/MU and I never noticed a thing."
It's not important what "other people" are doing. That's something beyond your control. The big question is what are YOU doing?
O11
No one would dispute whether or not it is your right to do so. HOWEVER, doing so does, in fact, have ramifications.
As an example, I recently gave a ride to a guy w/about a hundred or so guys below him. Wife, one child, one on the way. Left a commuter to come to Purple and thought he'd hit the lottery. When I asked him what a furlough would mean to him he said it wouldn't be pretty. I wish all of you who think it's OK to fly makeup/extra right now could look that guy in the eye and say just that. Essentially you're saying "yah, you and I work for the same company, but I don't give a *blank blank* about you or your family. Have a nice life."
His story is one among many (instead of Joe the Plumber, just think of him as "Bill the pilot"). You can choose to help that guy out or you can choose to turn a blind eye and pretend there are no consequences to your actions.
When will you have an opportunity to show your true character like this? When the economy bounces back will you be able to say "I did my part to help my fellow FX pilots" or "well it must've sucked for those guys, but hey, I flew my CO/MU and I never noticed a thing."
It's not important what "other people" are doing. That's something beyond your control. The big question is what are YOU doing?
O11
02-04-2009, 12:56 PM
#29
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: WB-FO
Posts: 50
To those that don't have a problem with flying MU or extra in our current climate...
No one would dispute whether or not it is your right to do so. HOWEVER, doing so does, in fact, have ramifications.
As an example, I recently gave a ride to a guy w/about a hundred or so guys below him. Wife, one child, one on the way. Left a commuter to come to Purple and thought he'd hit the lottery. When I asked him what a furlough would mean to him he said it wouldn't be pretty. I wish all of you who think it's OK to fly makeup/extra right now could look that guy in the eye and say just that. Essentially you're saying "yah, you and I work for the same company, but I don't give a *blank blank* about you or your family. Have a nice life."
His story is one among many (instead of Joe the Plumber, just think of him as "Bill the pilot"). You can choose to help that guy out or you can choose to turn a blind eye and pretend there are no consequences to your actions.
When will you have an opportunity to show your true character like this? When the economy bounces back will you be able to say "I did my part to help my fellow FX pilots" or "well it must've sucked for those guys, but hey, I flew my CO/MU and I never noticed a thing."
It's not important what "other people" are doing. That's something beyond your control. The big question is what are YOU doing?
O11
No one would dispute whether or not it is your right to do so. HOWEVER, doing so does, in fact, have ramifications.
As an example, I recently gave a ride to a guy w/about a hundred or so guys below him. Wife, one child, one on the way. Left a commuter to come to Purple and thought he'd hit the lottery. When I asked him what a furlough would mean to him he said it wouldn't be pretty. I wish all of you who think it's OK to fly makeup/extra right now could look that guy in the eye and say just that. Essentially you're saying "yah, you and I work for the same company, but I don't give a *blank blank* about you or your family. Have a nice life."
His story is one among many (instead of Joe the Plumber, just think of him as "Bill the pilot"). You can choose to help that guy out or you can choose to turn a blind eye and pretend there are no consequences to your actions.
When will you have an opportunity to show your true character like this? When the economy bounces back will you be able to say "I did my part to help my fellow FX pilots" or "well it must've sucked for those guys, but hey, I flew my CO/MU and I never noticed a thing."
It's not important what "other people" are doing. That's something beyond your control. The big question is what are YOU doing?
O11
O11,
I agree with you 100%. I have thrown a couple posts out there on this and they were met with mostly disagreement, though not all disagree with us. Maybe opinions will change if the "F word" alligator gets closer to the boat.
02-04-2009, 12:58 PM
#30
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: WB-FO
Posts: 50
PG,
Welcome. Now then. If guys were to do as you suggest, it could work. The problem as many here see it, is that the same guys pad their line with c/o, dft, vol, etc, etc, each and every month. As the senior guys usually have the pick of the lines, including the lines with c/o, they are primarily the ones with very large paychecks, by virtue of the extra flying. The junior guys, who are feeling the F word nipping at their heels, while at the same time seeing the extra flying that some of the senior guys are doing, are more than a little (and rightly so) upset. Anyway, that's how I see it. Again, Welcome.
JJ
Welcome. Now then. If guys were to do as you suggest, it could work. The problem as many here see it, is that the same guys pad their line with c/o, dft, vol, etc, etc, each and every month. As the senior guys usually have the pick of the lines, including the lines with c/o, they are primarily the ones with very large paychecks, by virtue of the extra flying. The junior guys, who are feeling the F word nipping at their heels, while at the same time seeing the extra flying that some of the senior guys are doing, are more than a little (and rightly so) upset. Anyway, that's how I see it. Again, Welcome.
JJ
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