GM Killing On-Demand Fr8 Ops?
11-23-2008, 06:48 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 151
For all the UAW bashers, here's some quick analysis from the GM Annual reports from 2001-2007. Note, UAW labor contract for salaried and hourly workers is from 2003-2007.
In 2001, GM North America (GMNA) had 207,000 employees and 352,000 employees worldwide (GM). Worldwide payroll was 19.1 billion and U.S. hourly payrolls were 8.5 billion. GMNA had net profit of 1.348 billion and GM had a net profit of 601 million consolidated. Please see the below chart (sorry it looks so crappy):
Yr GMNA Emps GM Emps GMNA Pay GM Pay GMNA Net GM Net
01 207,000 352,000 8.5b 19.1b 1.348b 601m
02 198,000 338,000 9.1b 20.4b 2.992b 1.736b
03 190,000 326,000 8.9b 20.9b 811m 3.8b
04 181,000 324,000 8.7b 21.5b 2.8b
05 173,000 335,000 8.0b 21.5b -10.57b
06 -1.978b
07 -38.732b
As you can see, 2005-2007 net profits are absolutely abysmal, yet the total number of UAW hourly workers and payroll are decreasing. So exactly how are hourly employee wages killing GM?
Also, an intersting blurb from the 2005 report. "Net income decreased 13.4 billion in 2005, compared to 2004, primarily driven by losses at GMNA due to unfavorable volume and product mix, restructuring charges, and charges for asset impairments."
No matter which way you look at these numbers and/or the rest of the reports, there is no logical way you can conclude that the labor force is responsible for the demise of GM. That blame rests solely on management and their inability to provide any sort of guidance and/or planning. Shame on them.
In 2001, GM North America (GMNA) had 207,000 employees and 352,000 employees worldwide (GM). Worldwide payroll was 19.1 billion and U.S. hourly payrolls were 8.5 billion. GMNA had net profit of 1.348 billion and GM had a net profit of 601 million consolidated. Please see the below chart (sorry it looks so crappy):
Yr GMNA Emps GM Emps GMNA Pay GM Pay GMNA Net GM Net
01 207,000 352,000 8.5b 19.1b 1.348b 601m
02 198,000 338,000 9.1b 20.4b 2.992b 1.736b
03 190,000 326,000 8.9b 20.9b 811m 3.8b
04 181,000 324,000 8.7b 21.5b 2.8b
05 173,000 335,000 8.0b 21.5b -10.57b
06 -1.978b
07 -38.732b
As you can see, 2005-2007 net profits are absolutely abysmal, yet the total number of UAW hourly workers and payroll are decreasing. So exactly how are hourly employee wages killing GM?
Also, an intersting blurb from the 2005 report. "Net income decreased 13.4 billion in 2005, compared to 2004, primarily driven by losses at GMNA due to unfavorable volume and product mix, restructuring charges, and charges for asset impairments."
No matter which way you look at these numbers and/or the rest of the reports, there is no logical way you can conclude that the labor force is responsible for the demise of GM. That blame rests solely on management and their inability to provide any sort of guidance and/or planning. Shame on them.
11-23-2008, 07:08 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Fdxlag,
Do you really think that it's the shareholders that give those gigantic bonuses to the heads of corporations? I believe that it's customary for a corporations BOD (board of directors) to approve the senior executive bonuses. And what makes it even worse, if something can actually be worse than paying executives huge bucks as bonuses, when the company that they are responsible to lead not only doesn't make money, but loses huge amounts, is that these board of directors are the original good-ole-boys-club. That's to say that executives from one company sit on the boards of other companies, while the execs from the other company sit on their boards. Probably not the way it's done at the Big 3, but you get the idea.
You also keep bringing up the $2500 per vehicle in union pensions and health care. While I agree that's a sizable amount, I'd venture to say that if Detroit had a history of producing quality, fuel efficient vehicles, for sale here in the United States, that a much greater segment of our citizenry would spend the money on these cars, and not look outside the country for their vehicles.
JJ
Do you really think that it's the shareholders that give those gigantic bonuses to the heads of corporations? I believe that it's customary for a corporations BOD (board of directors) to approve the senior executive bonuses. And what makes it even worse, if something can actually be worse than paying executives huge bucks as bonuses, when the company that they are responsible to lead not only doesn't make money, but loses huge amounts, is that these board of directors are the original good-ole-boys-club. That's to say that executives from one company sit on the boards of other companies, while the execs from the other company sit on their boards. Probably not the way it's done at the Big 3, but you get the idea.
You also keep bringing up the $2500 per vehicle in union pensions and health care. While I agree that's a sizable amount, I'd venture to say that if Detroit had a history of producing quality, fuel efficient vehicles, for sale here in the United States, that a much greater segment of our citizenry would spend the money on these cars, and not look outside the country for their vehicles.
JJ
The reason I keep bringing up $2500 is we are talking about the future and not the past. How does GM move on from here if that is not taken care of. Guess what Ford quality is close to Toyota. GM Fuel economy is very close to Honda. Have you seen the size of the Toyota and Nissan Pick up Trucks? My little ranger is afraid to go on the highway.
LAG
11-23-2008, 11:22 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Jet Pilot
Posts: 797
Yeah I'm sure if their were no unions at GM, Ford and Chrysler everything would be just hunky dory!
11-23-2008, 02:17 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
The shareholders do not set management compensation in total. They might set the senior management's salary, but bonuses, which is usually a much larger part of total compensation, is set by the BOD, without input from the shareholders.
11-23-2008, 06:28 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
No it's not. It's a testament to how well unions can work for their members. Nothing more and nothing less. Besides, if you want to, you probably could qualify to work on the production line of any US car maker, given the fact that they somehow remain in business.
JJ
JJ
11-23-2008, 07:30 PM
#88
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Swivel Chair
Posts: 97
GM - in Washington DC asking for, begging for a handout/intervention ...
FORD - in Washington DC asking for, begging for a handout/intervention ...
Chrysler - in Washington DC asking for, begging for an handout/intervention ...
All in their expensive business jets.
Honda - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
Toyota - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
Nissan - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
NONE OF THESE (Japanese) ARE ASKING/BEGGING FOR A HANDOUT ...
Yes, it is management's failure ... a failure to coral the UAW, failure to manipulate/maintain market ... failure to maintain a viable business ...
GM/FORD/Chrysler and Honda/Toyota/Nissan are all large multi-national corporations. They ALL build cars/trucks and export them to the markets that purchase them. Honda and Toyota build cars/truck in North America for export to other markets. Not at all different from GM/FORD/Chrysler.
The only real difference is that Honda/Toyota/Nissan are successfull in their business plans and the "Big Three" are not.
Let them go away, they have already failed and misserably at that. They do not deserve my tax dollars or the inflation of my earned currency to support their failures ...
TransMach
FORD - in Washington DC asking for, begging for a handout/intervention ...
Chrysler - in Washington DC asking for, begging for an handout/intervention ...
All in their expensive business jets.
Honda - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
Toyota - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
Nissan - working hard, producing product, profit and shareholder equity.
NONE OF THESE (Japanese) ARE ASKING/BEGGING FOR A HANDOUT ...
Yes, it is management's failure ... a failure to coral the UAW, failure to manipulate/maintain market ... failure to maintain a viable business ...
GM/FORD/Chrysler and Honda/Toyota/Nissan are all large multi-national corporations. They ALL build cars/trucks and export them to the markets that purchase them. Honda and Toyota build cars/truck in North America for export to other markets. Not at all different from GM/FORD/Chrysler.
The only real difference is that Honda/Toyota/Nissan are successfull in their business plans and the "Big Three" are not.
Let them go away, they have already failed and misserably at that. They do not deserve my tax dollars or the inflation of my earned currency to support their failures ...
TransMach
11-23-2008, 07:41 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
The only real difference is that Honda/Toyota/Nissan are successfull in their business plans and the "Big Three" are not.
Let them go away, they have already failed and misserably at that. They do not deserve my tax dollars or the inflation of my earned currency to support their failures ...
TransMach
Let them go away, they have already failed and misserably at that. They do not deserve my tax dollars or the inflation of my earned currency to support their failures ...
TransMach
JJ
11-23-2008, 09:42 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A300
Posts: 120
Legacy costs are a drain on the Big 3. A hundred years of history, moving a huge portion of this country from working poor to middle class and the promise of a lifetime of service being recognized with the security of a fixed retirement package has put them in this position. Well Social Security and Medicare are in the same boat, not enough workers to support those who have come before them.
Does the all knowing foreign car makers have this legacy cost, the Japanese government and their cultural ideology is bearing the cost of their legacy workers.
In 2010 when the new UAW contract goes into effect the average wage will be $14/ hour coming in the door. Is that low enough for you, does $28,000 make your self worth go up a couple notches.
Henry Ford paid one of the highest wages of his day, $5/ day because he understood that to be successful he had to have a customer base for his product, a product his employees could afford.
The Japanese were content/satisfied with the small car market because the Big 3 dominated the large truck market. F-150 highest selling vehicle for most of the past decade. Only in the last couple years did toyota venture into that high profit arena with their Tundra based down in Texas. Well guess what their "high quality" truck sales have taken a dump with reduced shifts and idol workers being kept on the payroll for worker morale and public perception.
Alabama is more than ready to fork over a couple hundred million in tax breaks to anybody but the Big 3 to get those lost auto jobs down there in non union, management friendly factories. Right to work states are falling all over themselves to see the fall of the last bastion of the UAW. The UAW dragged the rest of the working class into the 40 hour work week, sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, safe working conditions/OSHA. All unnecessary and costly expenses it seems to some of those posting here.
Just because you own a car doesn't make you an expert on the auto industry, it just gives you an opinion.
Let's not pick and choose who we think makes too much or isn't as valuable as our highly trained stick and rudder skills lead us to believe. I heard enough "the flight attendant makes more than I do" while flying 30 people from one small town to the next.
Does the all knowing foreign car makers have this legacy cost, the Japanese government and their cultural ideology is bearing the cost of their legacy workers.
In 2010 when the new UAW contract goes into effect the average wage will be $14/ hour coming in the door. Is that low enough for you, does $28,000 make your self worth go up a couple notches.
Henry Ford paid one of the highest wages of his day, $5/ day because he understood that to be successful he had to have a customer base for his product, a product his employees could afford.
The Japanese were content/satisfied with the small car market because the Big 3 dominated the large truck market. F-150 highest selling vehicle for most of the past decade. Only in the last couple years did toyota venture into that high profit arena with their Tundra based down in Texas. Well guess what their "high quality" truck sales have taken a dump with reduced shifts and idol workers being kept on the payroll for worker morale and public perception.
Alabama is more than ready to fork over a couple hundred million in tax breaks to anybody but the Big 3 to get those lost auto jobs down there in non union, management friendly factories. Right to work states are falling all over themselves to see the fall of the last bastion of the UAW. The UAW dragged the rest of the working class into the 40 hour work week, sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, safe working conditions/OSHA. All unnecessary and costly expenses it seems to some of those posting here.
Just because you own a car doesn't make you an expert on the auto industry, it just gives you an opinion.
Let's not pick and choose who we think makes too much or isn't as valuable as our highly trained stick and rudder skills lead us to believe. I heard enough "the flight attendant makes more than I do" while flying 30 people from one small town to the next.
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