Originally Posted by Dracma

GM - in Washington DC asking for, begging for a handout/intervention ...
FORD - in Washington DC asking for, begging for a handout/intervention ...
Chrysler - in Washington DC asking for, begging for an handout/intervention ...

All in their expensive business jets.

Anyone remember after 9/11 the government handed out a lot of cash to the airlines that were on the brink of bankruptcy? FedEx grabbed a bunch. After a while, the gov't realized that FedEx didn't qualify for the money and asked for it back, but FedEx refused.
My question.......which is worse?

Originally Posted by AirbusA320

So workers who bolt parts on cars probably make more and have a better benefit package than most Part 135 jet SICs. That's a slap in the face to pilots.

Originally Posted by Jetjok

The shareholders do not set management compensation in total. They might set the senior management's salary, but bonuses, which is usually a much larger part of total compensation, is set by the BOD, without input from the shareholders.

Originally Posted by Lucky7

Legacy costs are a drain on the Big 3. A hundred years of history, moving a huge portion of this country from working poor to middle class and the promise of a lifetime of service being recognized with the security of a fixed retirement package has put them in this position. Well Social Security and Medicare are in the same boat, not enough workers to support those who have come before them.

Does the all knowing foreign car makers have this legacy cost, the Japanese government and their cultural ideology is bearing the cost of their legacy workers.

In 2010 when the new UAW contract goes into effect the average wage will be $14/ hour coming in the door. Is that low enough for you, does $28,000 make your self worth go up a couple notches.

Henry Ford paid one of the highest wages of his day, $5/ day because he understood that to be successful he had to have a customer base for his product, a product his employees could afford.

The Japanese were content/satisfied with the small car market because the Big 3 dominated the large truck market. F-150 highest selling vehicle for most of the past decade. Only in the last couple years did toyota venture into that high profit arena with their Tundra based down in Texas. Well guess what their "high quality" truck sales have taken a dump with reduced shifts and idol workers being kept on the payroll for worker morale and public perception.

Alabama is more than ready to fork over a couple hundred million in tax breaks to anybody but the Big 3 to get those lost auto jobs down there in non union, management friendly factories. Right to work states are falling all over themselves to see the fall of the last bastion of the UAW. The UAW dragged the rest of the working class into the 40 hour work week, sick leave, vacation time, maternity leave, safe working conditions/OSHA. All unnecessary and costly expenses it seems to some of those posting here.

Just because you own a car doesn't make you an expert on the auto industry, it just gives you an opinion.

Let's not pick and choose who we think makes too much or isn't as valuable as our highly trained stick and rudder skills lead us to believe. I heard enough "the flight attendant makes more than I do" while flying 30 people from one small town to the next.

Originally Posted by FDXLAG

New hire pay now that really sounds like ALPA.

No body is throwing stones at the UAW, other than saying that yes they are part of the problem. Socialized medicine in Japan does not change the fact that labor costs are 75% higher for GM than they are for Toyota in the United States.

The BS about tax breaks in Alabama, yes they would have offered GM the same deal. The states offer tax breaks to anyone opening a new factory.

Again our tax structure is a big part of the problem. Our corporate tax, personal income tax, and social security taxes account for about 23% of every US vehicle. Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Honda, KIA not so. Most of their taxes are VAT and are refunded when the vehicle is exported. Even the US built cars are mostly components manufactured elsewhere and assembled here with vat refunds on the components; GM and Ford also do this to a lesser degree. If the UAW really wanted "change" they would support politicians who want to change the tax structure.

None of that changes the fact that GM can not build a car that competes with 75% higher labor costs.

Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r

I have to call BS on that.
You failed to mention that the majority of new Auto Factories (among others) opened within the last 20 years by the each Big 3 were opened "Outside" the US. The Big 3 all have opened factories in Mexico, Canada and China.

Parts, engines and assembly factories are peppered south of the mexican border and in the Pearl river basin near Shenzen China. The BIG 3 (just as any other US Coroporation ) don't have to pay Minimum wages healthcare or any type of Safety/disability to our Latin/ Chineses co-workers and other outsourced labor, yet they still sell cars and claim it's all the UAW's high costs. (There is no mention of the fact they never really modernized US factories becasue they intended to eventually outsource all assembly lines.) A large majority of American manufacturing takes place down there, which is one of the big problems. Over 2 million US jobs lost which is more lost tax revenue to pay for Healthcare, Social Security and medicare.

Damn those UAW folks for wanting to earn a basic living wage and striving to keep American Jobs on American Soil.

I suppose when ALPA, IPA, SWAPA jobs are next, it will be those damn Pilot Unions too?