RedeyeAV8r

I agree,,,,,,,Yes Two years is too long, however, What signal does it send to your NC when the membership votes down a deal they negotiated and endorse? All that says is we have lost faith with our Union negotiators or they are so far out of touch with our desires.

If that is how you feel and you don't like what your Negotiating Committee is doing or you don't trust their judgement, then go to you next LEC meeting and make a motion to Fire them. (Your Negotiating committee) or if you don't like your leadership Ditto on the above, make a motion for recall........ Otherwise give them your support.

What signal does it send to your NC when the membership votes down

If not, then give them the benefit of the doubt and read the darn thing when it is mailed to you.

Nightflyer

If the company thought that guys would move to ANC without a move package, they would not have given us one. I believe that advancement is so fast right now that they may be having a hard time getting guys to move to ANC, hence the LOA. And yes, I read it, and yes, I will vote no. My negotiating committee is supposed to be working on a TA, not an LOA. When they give me a TA, that I can vote yes to, then I'll be happy. Until then, I don't believe the union should do the company any favors. You saw the bid for 24 Captains. They didn't do the big bid because they needed the LOA to get guys to move to ANC. Now, tell me where my logic is wrong, and I'll be happy to reconsider my decision.

Nightflyer

I read it, and right now I am voting no. If you want to vote yes, that is fine, that is why we vote.

I recall another LOA that we voted for at the advice of the negotiating committee. It dealt with making sure that the MD guys got their first class seats booked on time, and corrected "errors" in the contract. One of those errors that was slipped through (by the negotiating committee that is supposed to represent me) involved taking away international pay and per diem from SIBA reserves. "It was a mistake, and was not supposed to be in the contract." Too bad, we actually had one on the company, but we were stupid and gave it away to get the company to do something they were supposed to do anyway. In that case, "my negotiating committee" made a mistake that cost us (and me) money.

Don't forget it was a negotiating committee that said "your health care benefits will not rise for the length of the contract". But they forgot to read the fine print that allowed the company to raise our copays. Oops! The lawyer should have been fired, but I don't think he ever was.

I brought up the request that the negotiating committee negotiate for the Roth 401K, but I have never gotten any commitment that they are. So are they? or are they not? If my negotiating committee represents me, they should actually listen to my concerns, and I am not sure they do.

The union leadership is whipping us up for a strike, there is peer pressure to not fly any extra (which I don't, although I fly with Captains bragging about selling back their vacation), and now the negotiating committee agrees to an LOA on a contract which is TWO YEARS late on being amended? YGBSM! And it is supposed to usher in a "new era of good faith bargaining"? It sounds like they have succombed to the purple kool-aid, and yes, it may be time to replace them.

As for me, I'll be voting no on the LOA. SHOW ME A TA!

RedeyeAV8r

First off.............Where did you read the LOA?
I looked on the ALPA web site and didn't see it. I would like to read it before I cast judgment. The email from the MEC did not have any language, just bullet points.

Second Last contract mistakes were surely made........heck in the beggining the FPA was originally a bunch of "NO Union" folks.....but were mostly all ousted but too late in the game. The FPA had 1 lawyer. The current FDX MEC has several and more legal assets in Herdon.

The Point is you sit here and *****, There was a lot of I, I, I in your last post.

You seem to stay on top of things and that is good. I also acknowledge your right to *****, you are afterall a dues paying member.

You seem to distrust the negotiating committee, yet you cite other crewmembers bragging about flying over time and selling back vacation.
If the crew force doesn't back the negotiating committee, what kind of deal do you think we will get............................................

If the crewforce doesn't back the Negotiating committee who do you think will step up to the plate?..........assuming your campaign to oust the current one is successful.......................and how long do you think that would add to the 2 years plus process we are currently engaged in?

Like I said, I haven't read the LOA so I won't say Yes or NO at this point.
But if it is a Gain ( we have no move package to ANC now but the LOA will give us one) If it is a permanant thing, that is a Gain. If it starts with a forthcoming bid that would be a good thing as Pilots get a move up and Pilots bidding out will get a move to LAX or MEM if they choose.......................................

Some else already posted........"If they post a bid tomorrow with 100 CPT vacancies in ANC do you really think they will have trouble filling those vacancies?" Ahem........ I think not and no one would get a move. (Up or back) Show me a pilot group where NO one will bid ANC until we get a DEAL, where people fly their line as bid until we get a deal, where people take their vacations until we get a deal........ and I'm with you Nightflyer!

I Understand your point that why don't we just get a TA instead of an LOA?

I know you want a TA. Heck we all want a TA and now!..........but guess what, that ain't happening. Many of your fellow pilots you cite from personal experience are giving more than 100%. Show me a pilot group where NO one will bid ANC until we get a DEAL, where people fly their line as bid until we get a deal, where people take their vacations until we get a deal........ and I'm with you Nightflyer!

If you think you can do a better job as a negotiator given the current circumstances, I'll second your motion to Can our NC but I will expect great things from you!!

Maybe we will have one in 3 months or maybe not for 2 more years.I don't know.

But I do know that if we can get an LOA with a gain right now (assuming it is a gain) we should at the very least consider it.

Nightflyer

Redeye,

The LOA was attached to your email copy of the message line.

I am not out to recall the negotiating committee, but I don't believe they are infallible.

I still think the LOA is a tactical mistake, and will allow the "big bid" to commence and drag negotiations out even longer. Why give up what little leverage we have? We turned down the first one, they wanted it bad enough to come back for another try, why not say "no LOA, but we can include it in the TA"?

Remember the company's response the our postal demands? They laughed in our face! Again, I say, why should we do them any favors?

When YOU have read the LOA, feel free to comment.

RedeyeAV8r

The email I received did not have an attachment..............
PM me and I'll give you my email, You can forward it to me if you want.

As for the Postal bid........True they laughed in our face because folks continued to sell vacation back and go the extra mile (and have every month since the Postal bid of 2000).

When I get it, I will read the LOA and let you know.

dckozak

I wouldn't say we "lost" anything turning down the LOA re: Postal flying. FDX wanted ALL pilots to fly more, whether you wanted to or not. Lots of little gottchas, in there also, as I remember, like an increase in the total TAFB of the trips they could build. Having just completed one of our 5 week one trip departures, I'm glad it couldn't be built any longer! No, I think we did the right thing not signing on that POS. The wh@res will do what they do, we can't stop them, but at least we all don't have to follow in their foot steps.

Ranger

My beloved company would NEVER sign anything that they couldn't use against the crew force. It's against their nature. I have absolutely no problem with not signing anything except a new contract.

And how do we know that the ANC move LOA isn't on the table for contract negotiations?

Nightflyer

I am not allowed to PM, for some reason. (not sure why)

It basically says the new guys going to ANC will get a #2 move package, must remain 18 months going up, or 3 years for a round trip move.

No crashpad moves or moves for guys already there, if I read it correctly.

The .pdf file I have is stamped DRAFT, and received from the company on March 30, 2006.

Call the union, if I got one on my message line, you should have, too.

I am sure this will benefit guys who want to move to ANC, but I don't think it will help the guys already there.

My point remains the same. The company wants this, we want a TA. Why should we help them, when they won't help us? Unless the union knows something they are not telling about the TA, I think I'll pass on the LOA.

captain_drew

Well, the ‘airwh*r*’ syndrome is something we have always dealt with at the Purple Pilot place . . and it seems to be still alive and well.

I don’t know if Phred’s Phlyers have a higher percentage of greedy b*st*rds than other places. BUT . . when it comes to union officials, he might be right. They (the NC) are just ‘people’ with human weaknesses. . and it would not be the first time the union has not represented the true will of its constituency.

There is still a guy around by the name of Bob Chimenti, who I believe holds some sort of position in the union. He was a ‘company witness’ in the ‘seniority lawsuit‘ -against hundreds of his peers who were screwed by Fred’s double dealing in the Tiger merger. That lawsuit is STILL going on, 15 years later . . due in part, to the Benidict Arnold like, ‘turn coat’ performances of people like Chimenti and Dave Sanders!