B727DRVR

Salty Dog,

You show a lot of class and represent your IPA brothers and sister , and all pilots, well! Don't feel bad about FR8K9, I think that he might be the formerly banned Ned Ryerson of ANC MD-11 and IPA B&G fame... You know, the 1% rule..LOL!

In Unity,

B727DRVR
The Airline Pilot's sad new catchphrase song...

B727DRVR

Dude,

I never attacked any of your posts, I don't think... Mostly only alot of Ned Ryerson's, FR8K9's, and maybe only one each of Lil'J's and Priority 3's....

I think that you are like of the many great UPS/IPA guys and gals that I enjoyed standing next to in a picket line in SDF 11 years ago.. August 17, 1997, if I remember correctly...

I have a tremendous amount of respect for the IPA pilots and their leadership, having worked with them on several levels including CAPA. While I disagree on your overall posts on ALPA, I agree that the IPA is more effective in some ways. But to diss ALPA as a whole, is like dissing the American soldier that secured Omaha beach, but had some problems since Vietnam. If it weren't for the Brave pilots like Dave Behneke (SP?), there might not have been a Bob Miller..... Both risked losing their careers (and even lives) and fought for all pilots, not just ALPA or IPA. I recommend that you look at the 75th Anniversary Edition of the much belittled and maligned Air Line Pilot magazine to see how many things that ALPA fought for that you and I now take for granted (but shouldn't!). Believe it or not, but ALPA has fought for you too! (And all pilots, for that matter)

I have been IBT, ALPA, and unrepresented, and I can tell you that we are all in this together... Any group that is organized and is at least trying to better pilot's lives should be applauded, not derided.

Good luck to us all during these tough times...

In Unity,

B727DRVR
The Airline Pilot's sad new song.....

B727DRVR

FR8K9,

Your posts seem strikingly similar to Ned Ryerson, whom was banned from this board for making inflammatory statements .. at least temporarily, earlier this summer. He was banned in late summer, and now you pop up in September, also an MD-11 Captain from ANC. Being that I don't work for UPS, you have me beat in the credibility of "the overwhelming opinion of all your UPS/IPA brothers here..." But I can tell you that the entire group of my IPA friends and contacts feel like Salty Dog, Gremlin, AV80R, etc.. and realize the desperate situation that the ABX/Astar pilots find themselves in, and empathize and understand their actions. They realize that they would be doing the same thing if the situations were reversed. Just as ALPA did. And my friends their try to keep the flamebait on the IPA Bar and Grill.

And many thought that Ned Ryerson was a UPS Management pilot in ANC, for getting so upset about someone picketing their Headquarters. I was in the IPA Strike Center in August 1997, and I can tell you that it has been done before.. In the back room of the IPA Strike Center, the picket lines all over the country were being monitored on at least 6 TV/VCR combos hooked up to different sattelites. If I am not mistaken, DAL, NWA, DHL, and ABX participated in some of the picketing (along with pilots from many other carriers), ALPA gave some consultation, and they at least gave you tacit support of your "Definition of Struck Freight" by letting their management know that they would under no circumstances fly UPS "struck" freight. They also patrolled their respective sorts to ensure that no UPS freight was aboard their aircraft. Make no mistake about it, ALPA, through various carriers has helped you and the IPA directly and indirectly. And I'm not even going to get into what ALPA has done for ALL pilots since it's secret inception in 1932. As I said in my last post, without Captain Dave Behneke, there may have never been a Captain Bob Miller or an IPA. Without Lech Walesa, Communism might still be the rage in Eastern Europe.. And so on.

And UPS/IPA pilots picketed UPS HQ, sorts, ect., when they were only striking in support of their IBT breathren and no, that's right 0, IPA jobs were at stake.. So why do you care if some desperate pilots picket in front of your HQ, and not in front of IPA HQ? If UPS pilots can do it with no job loss at stake, then why not pilots who have everything to gain and nothing to lose in an effort to get a few more decent paychecks.

FR8K9, I'm really not attacking you with the comparison to Ned Ryerson, I merely want to know with whom (as much as anyone can know on a board like this) I am debating. And don't worry, if the situation was reversed and the IPA had picketed the DHL HQ, and HVYDRVR were attacking the IPA pilots for doing so, then know that I would be defending you just as fiercely.

In Unity,

B727DRVR
The Airline Pilot's sad new song...

B727DRVR

O.K. fellow aviators,

No more posts from me tonight... ! I promise..

In Unity,

B727DRVR

Ned Ryerson

hey sherlock holmes, i'm not banned and i never was banned like you say. i stopped responding to all these discussions and i think you know why.

it looks like nothing has changed. any UPS pilot that defends their opinion gets hammered on this message board. back to lurking for me.

SaltyDog

All fellow APC aviators,
Relax fella's <g>
looking to the fundamentals,

1.We pilots here are a bunch of professionals who have a like career.

2.We are affected by the market realities and business forces beyond our control.

3. Mismanagemnt of 2. brings us to division and loss of jobs.

UPS management may state that without DHL business they are pondering furlough....... Won't hold with it, not falling for the trap. Nice try, but these murmurs serve management in many ways. What a beautiful pilot union busting statement. Pour p!$$ and vinegar and hope it spreads. Apparently it is working, sadly, a goal of any management team is to divide any union pilot anywhere and everywhere.
UPS is glad to create this divide between ABX/Astar/UPS pilots because we have relied on one anothers grit in previous contract talks to bolster our own position. Can hear UPS' next concessionary contract offered to the IPA in 2012. "Well you see what the ABX/Astarpilotsdid to their companies back in 2008, Do you want to end up like them?" Load of dung.
No union perfect, but glad ALPA/CALPA line pilots have made my life better.
My faith stays with you fellow line aviators. We didn't create these problems, so my philosophical view is one of support and seeking solution rather than participate with the division.
Will not fall for the tactic in difficult times whereas management will throw us a scattered handful of dimes and while we are piling over each other to grab "ours" and bad mouthing each other, managements are lining the corporate pockets with the dollars.

MiserDD

Is that just ABX and ASTAR unemployed pilots or all unemployed pilots??? There are a lot of unemployed pilots out there whose management failed them. Should UPS only look at failed cargo companies?? How about the military guys, should guys who’ve been flying as 14 months tours in Iraq as Captains, at half the pay of a ABX / ASTAR Captain, trying to ensure another 9/11 doesn’t destroy what’s left of the airline industry, shouldn’t they get consideration?? Are you really concerned about all unemployed pilots...

Waborita

As far as ALPA - we'll never agree on that. I'm happy with IPA and if for some reason one day they decide to change to ALPA then I'd rather have no union at all. ALPA is the worst enemy of the pilots but that's not what this thread is about so let's agree on disagreeing on that. [/quote]


I have to disagree with your statement because (Insert union letters here) is NOT the worst enemy of pilots. PILOTS are their own worst enemies!

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[quote=MiserDD;474193]Is that just ABX and ASTAR unemployed pilots or all unemployed pilots??? There are a lot of unemployed pilots out there whose management failed them. Should UPS only look at failed cargo companies?? How about the military guys, should guys who’ve been flying as 14 months tours in Iraq as Captains, at half the pay of a ABX / ASTAR Captain, trying to ensure another 9/11 doesn’t destroy what’s left of the airline industry, shouldn’t they get consideration?? Are you really concerned about all unemployed pilots... [/quote

You know darn well that military pilots always go to the top of the list, especially at FedEx. I appreciate the tough job they do but they shouldn't jump to the head of the line over qualified civilians. Nobody owes anybody a living.

MiserDD

NO, actually I don’t know that. However, keep in mind that we’re talking about UPS here, and who they will hire in the near future... Keep on subject.

I’ve had friends that got on at UPS, and none of them went directly from the military, they all went via a commuter. In turn, each of them knows someone who was hired directly from the military, so it obviously happens. I have no desire to drive a wedge between civilian and military pilots; we’ve all made our choices which brought us to this point.

What I’m saying is that no pilot should be granted head of the line privileges based on the former employer they chose. Each person should be viewed independently as a new perspective pilot. Past employment should only be viewed as certification of the experience that brought you to the point of application. (Though I will acknowledge that, if you’re going to be stuck in a cockpit with a guy for 6 hours, a 20 year military guy probably has a vast repartee of non Part 121 stories to keep you entertained.)

But it was nice to see that your first post on APC was a bag full of mud to sling!