A Pilot

AV8OR,
The same thing I said to Fr8 goes to you. If a few years from now many ABX pilots get hired and no Astar pilots then you can bring that up. No need to keep kicking those guys when they're down.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I disagree. The ‘over water’ requirement was a temporary fix just to appease the FAA. With the age 65 rule the ‘experience level’ in ANC (and elsewhere) is no longer an issue and I bet you once we start hiring again we’ll be seeing a return of the typical UPS new-hire class where they hire a little bit of this and a little bit of that (1/3 military, 1/3 civilian and 1/3 in between).

UPS does not like to be told whom they should hire and for a brief time that’s exactly what happened. So once hiring resumes - whenever that happens - I think we’ll see a return to the ‘old school’ hiring which differs greatly from Purple for example where the majority folks came from the same place.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Huh? Maybe 727driver or heavydriver can tell me what part of my post is "kicking the guys who are down"? If you look at my previous posts regarding this issue you’ll see I’ve been as far from ‘kicking’ those guys as it gets – in fact I’ve been very supportive of them.


No idea what to make out of your post…

A Pilot

I agree with pretty much everything you've said when it comes to 'protecting your own' and I truly wish our brothers and sisters at Astar and ABX the very best, it’s a horrible position to be in especially right now when our industry is so weak.

However, one thing I never agreed with was to picket UPS headquarters. I think it was very counterproductive to protest UPS since Big Brown had nothing to do with DHL's business decision and our management wouldn’t be doing their job of promoting growth if they didn’t jump on this opportunity.

In my view, instead of picketing against UPS your union leadership should’ve held a meeting with our management representatives where they should’ve asked for preferential interviews, etc. Use some reverse psychology - instead of protesting something neither you nor I or anyone else on the airline side can do something about ask for something that’s not impossible to achieve – it would’ve helped to offset some furloughs (IF the deal goes through) and it would also give UPS a way to promote itself as an employer sensitive to workers’ needs.

Just my worthless ½ ¢.

PS. ALPA SUX!!! (but that's a different story...)

AV8OR,
I am talking about this post. It started out supportive and then you mention that picketing, thats all. It just doesnt seem apropriate to bring it up anymore. Telling the guys their leadership should have done this and not that, etc. And by the way, ALPA is a great union. ALPA fought hard for those guys jobs.

Worldguy

Going back to the original thread. At WOA the pilots still have a say in who we work with. I and most of my coworkers support the ABX/Astar folks and will try to keep them working if we can. If and when the lil Jerry types find themselves on the street we will support them too, whether they get the job or not is up to them.

WG

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I am talking about this post. It started out supportive and then you mention that picketing, thats all. It just doesnt seem apropriate to bring it up anymore. Telling the guys their leadership should have done this and not that, etc. And by the way, ALPA is a great union. ALPA fought hard for those guys jobs.

Well, I guess I see your point even though you misconstrued (that's a word, right? ) what I was trying to say, oh well...

As far as ALPA - we'll never agree on that. I'm happy with IPA and if for some reason one day they decide to change to ALPA then I'd rather have no union at all. ALPA is the worst enemy of the pilots but that's not what this thread is about so let's agree on disagreeing on that.

AL E NEWMAN

YOU and your brethren at IPA/UPS have benefited from the fact that ALPA has contributed to more regulatory and safety changes than any other entity around. Churlish statements notwithstanding, your derision of ALPA speaks volumes about your insight as to how the aviation industry works. ALPA was born in the 30's, long before IPA or UPS 'airlines'. IPA stands on the shoulders of guys and girls who put their careers on the line and sacrificed all for a safer and better work environment. If you indeed went to UPS after having been at another airline, chances are that you worked for an ALPA carrier, and I would be willing to bet that at times for said carrier, you supported your local union, i.e., ALPA. Are they perfect? NO, they have been ridden hard and put away wet so to speak, just like any democracy, they have been balkanized with differing special interests competing for their attention. Yeah, IPA or nothing, good luck with that.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Newman - Please keep this thread on the subject - in my view ALPA management is more corrupt than any politicians out there and that says a lot. There’s nothing you can say that’ll change my view so let’s keep it on the subject…

PS. I held that view long before coming to Big Brown.

Sideshow Bob

Now you're showing your true colors...

Thinly veiled threats...just as I thought.

AL E NEWMAN

Well you paint a pretty broad brush, saying ALPA 'management' is corrupt, or is it certain grievances that you bring to the table. Your worldview is UPS/IPA, and that's fine, but to tar and feather everyone else who is ALPA, calls for the B.S. flag to be raised.