767pilot

I thought it would suck but it is OK. You get more mone up front in your career. If you are smart it is a very good deal

Jumbo Pilot

Arbitration only affects payrates... NOT WORK RULES.

This is a VERY important point.

BigWatchPilot

So if the WB pay rates are imposed on the 777 then what about the other part of the contract that applies duty time with A380. Will the 777 = 380 for that part of the contract?

777 does NOT equal 380 PAY...

777 DOES equal 380 duty limits...

The company will want it both ways. They can't fly a 777 for 18 hrs non-stop if it's not in the contract.

BWP

FoxHunter

What routes would 16+ hours be required? The passenger airlines show less than 16 hours JFK/EWR to HKG. How does that distance compare to MEM-China Hub? Are the few routes over 16 hours planned for 2009 or 2014? China-CDG, China-OAK, China-ANC are all well within the present 16 hour limit.

FDXAV8R

We need to keep our on the ball here fellas. This is a business deal, of course the company is going to try and ****** us. But if we had a single good guy in the union he would focus on revenue genrated and cost of operation (efficiency). The airplane carries I believe around 40% more and costs a lot less to operate, we want a representative piece of the pie. Of course we can't ignore the comparables and the business environmenting we are operating in, but the A380 pay scale is only a 6.5% pay raise for an airplane that probably generates 50% more profit. When the passenger carriers were getting big pay raises the company ignored the comparables and the operating environment. So lets try to focus on the facts. The 777's ability to fly direct not only saves money, but eliminates the need for numerous other flights (even more savings). Delta used to pay $320 an hour and they carried people. Give me a break, everyone needs to find their sack and get the thing off their standing bid and let your union reps know we are not flying the 777 until it has a reasonable pay scale. To me it should be in the range of 50% hour pay rate increase. Do you think the company will miss that on a flight that generates 10 million dollars in revenue. Stop giving up so easy and losing before the fight begins. I thought we were smarter and had a little more spinal fortitude than this. Make the damn union grow a set and do their jobs. Get us the right pay right, not some **** deal like the LOA. For all you sell out instructors and guys who signed up to be a part of a program that we have nothing negotiated for yet, thanks for your faith in the rest of us to ensure you will get what we work hard to get for you. It is easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing, but in the end you know taking care of yourself is just fine, but screwing everyone else in the process is BS, and weakens us all now and in all future negotiations.

FDXAV8R

We need to keep our eye on the ball here fellas. This is a business deal, of course the company is going to try and ****** us. But if we had a single good guy in the union he would focus on revenue genrated and cost of operation (efficiency). The airplane carries I believe around 40% more and costs a lot less to operate, we want a representative piece of the pie. Of course we can't ignore the comparables and the business environmenting we are operating in, but the A380 pay scale is only a 6.5% pay raise for an airplane that probably generates 50% more profit. The A380 pay scale is completely inadequate and our union let us down putting it in the contract. It is not enough for the 777 much less the A380. When the passenger carriers were getting big pay raises the company ignored the comparables and the operating environment. So lets try to focus on the facts. The 777's ability to carry more, fly direct and do it more efficiently not only saves money, but eliminates the need for numerous other flights (even more savings). Delta used to pay $320 an hour and they carried people. Give me a break, everyone needs to find their sack and get the thing off their standing bid and let your union reps know we are not flying the 777 until it has a reasonable pay scale. To me it should be in the range of 50% hour pay rate increase. Do you think the company will miss that on a flight that generates 10 million dollars in revenue. Stop giving up so easy and losing before the fight begins. I thought we were smarter and had a little more spinal fortitude than this. Make the damn union grow a set and do their jobs. Get us the right pay right, not some **** deal like the LOA. For all you sell out instructors and guys who signed up to be a part of a program that we have nothing negotiated for yet, thanks for your faith in the rest of us to ensure you will get what we work hard to get for you. It is easy to rationalize doing the wrong thing, but in the end you know taking care of yourself is just fine, but screwing everyone else in the process is BS, and weakens us all now and in all future negotiations. Dave Webb and the union have been letting us down, make sure they know you are not happy, demand better, support them by getting the 777 off your standing bid and hold the bastards accountable. The Union better deliver or they need to be voted out so they can do hub turns with the crew force they are suppossed to represent.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Salty got a new thread going - http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ca...tml#post469544

kronan

EWR is further north so the great circle route is shorter than flying from memphis

Distance to HKG
7,099 from Memphis
6,993 from Newark

And, the hub is further away than HKG.

You also need to remember that it's a rare trip from Memphis that departs on time. Pretty easy to have weather days in Memphis (and whether days aren't that infrequent either. When Memphis is playing, or it's cold, or it's rainy, a bunch of the hubbites decide whether to come to work or not)

pilot141

Of course they are. That's why the company is jumping through every hoop in the book to get Flag status.

Because, you know, this company likes to throw money away on meaningless certifications.

Nope, nothing to see here - no 16+ hours days on that 777! Go ahead and bid it, FH - you've got your window seat back and a new type rating waiting for you!

FR8Hauler

Good luck. Nothing against FE but don't hold your breath.