Originally Posted by CactusCrew

And our most JUNIOR folks are flying the newest wide-body ... oh yeah, it is in ANC !

So just the opposite has happened, the most juniot get bumped on to the wide-body, which is ironic to say the least.

If we had wide-body pay, ANC would not be as junior as it is. And I actually think training events would decrease. IMHO anyway ...

Originally Posted by Gunter

o.k.

Give us some background. What is your perspective? FO or CA? That colors your opinions.

The senior bubbas often work to protect or enhance their pay at the expense of the junior bubbas. Frankly, I am amazed the IPA negotiated such a junior member friendly contract. I've only heard irritation from the senior guys who feel THEIR money is being given to the juniority.

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

They won't use UPS pilots to fly that size aircraft, they will subcontract the same way they do with the feeders in ONT, SAT, EWR, etc..
The mistake the majors made was trying to get the small airplane pay to the large airplane pay disregarding the revenue production.
This started when the DC-9 grew from the -10 to the -50 and the pilots wanted the same pay .

You have a differential pay structure to allow the smaller airplane to remain in the fleet so that a pilot has the opportunity to get on the ladder, the group has an array of choices. The expansion of the Commuter(now called regional) was a response to costs

Originally Posted by AFW_MD11

Correct me if I'm wrong, but......

1) still no payrate established for the 777

2) the company can put the 777 into service at whatever payrate they want

3) if they do #2, then, according to the CBA section 26.K. when the company and the union finally do agree on a payrate, it will be applied retroactively

4) also according to 26.K. if the parties have initiated "conferences" and they haven't resulted in an agreement - after 30 days, the issue goes to a System Board (made up of an equal # of company and union members plus a "neutral" arbitrator)

5) the decision of the System Board is imposed on both parties and applied retroactively

so.....my question is.......where are we now in that process?

are we just having "friendly discussions" with the company? (which don't seem to be going anywhere) or have we elevated it to the level of "official conferences"?

and, shouldn't the System Board be the next step?

does convening a System Board favor either side on this issue?

eventually, doesn't there have to be a rate set and agreed to by both parties?

Originally Posted by MoosePileit

At the risk of a wasted posting, I agree with your history lesson. I also agree they would set it up as a sub if they wanted, hence my reference to the possible TNT deal and what they fly over there... I don't think someone trying to bait a discussion on single rate vs. narrow/wide/multi rate gets much mileage out of saying "well, what if they want an RJ" or similar. IF UPS wanted an RJ on their main line, they'd have to pay the same, no jet envy here.... I hope......

Originally Posted by Precontact

It's good we did since now we get to enjoy five more years in the right seat...

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

Are you sugesting that they would pay the same for the smaller aircraft (RJ) as they do for the Large (767/MD-11)?

If so this would be so uneconomical that that aircraft would never see a IPA pilot flying it.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog

I agree with everything you say except the disunity is more apathy except for a few vocal few. Reason I voted No. However, I was glad to see F/O pay go up. That is probably our only disagreement really <g> .

I have no objection to FO pay going UP, I have objection to the change from 12 to 15 years to obtain max pay and the fact that max pay failed( with the concessions on health care costs, etc) to even pace inflation.
Someday the pilots that got the pay bump are going to figure out how much damage they did to themselves.

Find Lebo and have him explain it to you

Sorry for thread hijack, Purpose of my original comment was to opine that Fedex pilots could find similiarity in benefits for same pay rate for 777 as a 757 driver if all were paid at MD-11 rates etc.

Originally Posted by MoosePileit

No. Why would I suggest that and why would we enter into a what-if? The original post I replied to sounded against single pay rates across fleets like UPS has and tried to bait the idea w/ an "RJ". I'm not sure any pilot gets to have the final call on economics until they start their own operation. Especially not just a line bro on mangler. I could what if a scenario, but why bother- folks just want to rant and I think I touched the tar baby. Off to a decent brew away from the screens.

Originally Posted by 757upspilot

As A UPS pilot, the single pay rate S*()s.