cma2407

Until it suddenly shows up one day in the bidpack. Preceded by a couple of days by the FCIF "informing" us of our new status as a flag carrier.

Then what? We um, dispute it?

2cylinderdriver

Not saying they will not try that, but Flag Ops Change does not alter our CBA. Only the A380 has work rules to allow >16 hour flights as far as I can tell ?

8. International Double Crew Provisions
a. A double crew for a 2-pilot aircraft shall be:
i. Scheduled: A double crew may be scheduled with 2
Captains and 2 First Offi cers or with 1 Captain and
3 First Offi cers, provided, however, that for the fi rst 3
bid periods during which a new lane segment is being
developed, a double crew fl ying that lane segment shall
consist of 2 Captains and 2 First Officers.
ii. Operational: 1 Captain and 3 First Officers 2-Pilot
Aircraft
b. A double crew may be utilized only on aircraft equipped with
FAA approved rest provisions for each pilot not fl ying.
c. Block Hour Limitations
A 4-pilot double crew shall not exceed 16 block hours in any
24 consecutive hours.
d. On-duty Limitations
A 4-pilot crew on aircraft other than the A380 may be
scheduled to a maximum of 18 hours on duty, which may be
extended to 19:30 hours operational. A 4-pilot crew on the
A380 may be scheduled to a maximum of 20 hours on duty,
which may be extended to 21:30 hours operational.

Busboy

Not FARs. Work rules!! Like the ones that have been and will need to be negotiated into our CBA.

The company will continue to roll over us until all of you grow a pair and try standing up for yourselves.

It's pathetic.

LeftWing

Why don't you read my entire post? I'll say it again. This will allow a senior pilot to bid smaller aircraft and not have it affect their pay.

Pretend? You're the one pretending. A pilot's actual work does not affect revenue when it comes to different aircraft types. In regard to revenue, there is nothing different between a pilot operating a flight on a 777 vs DC-9. Are they selling seats? No. When the door is closed, we all do the same job.

As for your implication, politics have nothing to do with my view here.

I'm not quite sure what you're reaching for here. P & L is management's department, not that of pilots.

Daniel Larusso

Decision 83

Busboy

.......Of 1934?

Toccata

It looks to me like the only difference currently between the A380 and the 777 is that you go dead in the water earlier with a delay. Assuming a 16 hour flight, greater than three hours from show to push and your done in the 777 (vs. 5 hours from show to push in the A380).

That right?

2cylinderdriver

Basically, but it is worth noting that we gave the company longer duty times for the A380 double crew AND the "double plus" rules. We allowed the same crew complement to fly different duty lengths, not sure why but we did.

What I was attempting to point out was the inability of the Company to fly flights longer than 16 hours, regardless of operating under Supplemental or Flag due to our work rules in the CBA. The only way to operate a 777 without an LOA is exactly like any other widebody.

fdx727pilot

No, because of the next paragraph adds another category only applying to the A380:

9. International A380 “Double Plus” (Two Full Crews and Additional Pilot(s) as Required) Provisions

a. An international A380 “Double Plus” crew may be utilized only on aircraft equipped with FAA approved rest provisions for each pilot not flying.

b. Block Hour Limitations

An international A380 “Double Plus” crew shall not exceed 20 block hours in any 24 consecutive hours.

c. On-duty Limitations

An international A380 “Double Plus” crew may be scheduled to a maximum of 22 hours on duty, which may be extended to 23:30 hours operational.

d. Rest Provisions

An international A380 “Double Plus” crew shall be scheduled to receive a rest period following each duty period equal to or greater than the actual on-duty hours of that duty period, but not less than 17 hours. This rest requirement may be operationally reduced to 16 hours.


This is the section that Fedex won't be able to use, as it only applies to A380s, not 777.

As mentioned above, while pay rates may be established through arbitration by a System Board iaw the CBA, it will take an LOA to our CBA to get the 777 covered by the A380 rules. If we hold fast, the company is over a barrel.

Piloto Noche

From the recent Message Line:

A safe bet would be to bid the B777 if you will be satisfied with over 16 hour legs at domestic A300 pay.

Still, they will bid it. I think we should just make it "Boeing Pay". 75/72/77.