UPS Rumor Mill
08-31-2008, 05:26 PM
#81
New ride...
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Posts: 534
No, vacancies have to be put out for a bid to all crewmembers (with exception of probies - those awards need not be filled by the company). It is those vacancies that are left over after all the musical chairs is done that are filled by newhires.
08-31-2008, 05:29 PM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 138
All vacancies must be posted and crewmembers must be allowed to bid on prior to a new hire.
(confirmed by Brian Conley)
(confirmed by Brian Conley)
08-31-2008, 07:13 PM
#83
Thanks for the jumpseat!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: MD-11 galley operator
Posts: 260
So how many slots will be vacant for 27 wide-bodies? What's their staffing model for the 767? Some aircraft would be retired due to the additional planes, no?
How many over-sixty guys are still in the F/E seat?
How many over-sixty guys are still in the F/E seat?
08-31-2008, 07:28 PM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
If I understand the bidding system correctly..The 767s will create "vacancies"...which will quickly be filled up by the ultra-senior over-60 folks who are yearning for the front seats?
Although there are nearly 30 A/Cs coming, I'm sure some of us will be able to cash in at some point towards the end of the deliveries.
Did I get it right? The whole UPS vacancies/realignment/displacement shuffling system is still a mystery to me.
Although there are nearly 30 A/Cs coming, I'm sure some of us will be able to cash in at some point towards the end of the deliveries.
Did I get it right? The whole UPS vacancies/realignment/displacement shuffling system is still a mystery to me.
The ultra senior 60+ generally won't be able to cash in. Recall that once you are 63, UPS does not contractually have to train you (Bypass: Art 14.3)for a new seat. Also, since they took an upgrade from S/O to F/O or Capt, they incurred a 12 month transition freeze, same seat to seat incurs a 24 month transition freeze. (Art 14.E.2.c), Example: the 60+ year old 747-400 F/O's incurred a seat lock (Transistion Freeze). Very few of these folks just turned 60. Many by either transition freeze or natural age, will be beyond 63 next year when vacancies occur. This means that will be ineligible for recurring vacancies. (Seats opened up by the domino effect of displacements or original vacancies). They would be eligible for original vacancies, however, the age 63 clock still applies thus voiding for the majority (by company choice) their ability to train in a new seat. Thus, I see the opportunities for the rest of the group, generally benfitting the more junior. Most of the mid seniority folks are just not really in play unless they are looking for a life change. Generally low turnover though in these levels. (50% F/O for example). Also, the folks that are now turning 60 generally will sit where they are and will not change the shuffle (other than delay another upgrade for the next 5 years.
) In any case, the 767's showing up won't see many of the 60+ folks moving like we did with the original 74 vacancies and 74 legacy displacements. That one time event is over.
08-31-2008, 07:41 PM
#85
Thanks for the jumpseat!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: MD-11 galley operator
Posts: 260
DWB,
The ultra senior 60+ generally won't be able to cash in. Recall that once you are 63, UPS does not contractually have to train you (Bypass: Art 14.3)for a new seat. Also, since they took an upgrade from S/O to F/O or Capt, they incurred a 12 month transition freeze, same seat to seat incurs a 24 month transition freeze. (Art 14.E.2.c), Example: the 60+ year old 747-400 F/O's incurred a seat lock (Transistion Freeze). Very few of these folks just turned 60. Many by either transition freeze or natural age, will be beyond 63 next year when vacancies occur. This means that will be ineligible for recurring vacancies. (Seats opened up by the domino effect of displacements or original vacancies). They would be eligible for original vacancies, however, the age 63 clock still applies thus voiding for the majority (by company choice) their ability to train in a new seat. Thus, I see the opportunities for the rest of the group, generally benfitting the more junior. Most of the mid seniority folks are just not really in play unless they are looking for a life change. Generally low turnover though in these levels. (50% F/O for example). Also, the folks that are now turning 60 generally will sit where they are and will not change the shuffle (other than delay another upgrade for the next 5 years.) In any case, the 767's showing up won't see many of the 60+ folks moving like we did with the original 74 vacancies and 74 legacy displacements. That one time event is over.
The ultra senior 60+ generally won't be able to cash in. Recall that once you are 63, UPS does not contractually have to train you (Bypass: Art 14.3)for a new seat. Also, since they took an upgrade from S/O to F/O or Capt, they incurred a 12 month transition freeze, same seat to seat incurs a 24 month transition freeze. (Art 14.E.2.c), Example: the 60+ year old 747-400 F/O's incurred a seat lock (Transistion Freeze). Very few of these folks just turned 60. Many by either transition freeze or natural age, will be beyond 63 next year when vacancies occur. This means that will be ineligible for recurring vacancies. (Seats opened up by the domino effect of displacements or original vacancies). They would be eligible for original vacancies, however, the age 63 clock still applies thus voiding for the majority (by company choice) their ability to train in a new seat. Thus, I see the opportunities for the rest of the group, generally benfitting the more junior. Most of the mid seniority folks are just not really in play unless they are looking for a life change. Generally low turnover though in these levels. (50% F/O for example). Also, the folks that are now turning 60 generally will sit where they are and will not change the shuffle (other than delay another upgrade for the next 5 years.
) In any case, the 767's showing up won't see many of the 60+ folks moving like we did with the original 74 vacancies and 74 legacy displacements. That one time event is over.Didn't the company say that they will train whomever that bids the front seat regardless of age?
I thought I heard someone posted something about a guy on IOE on the -400 that is 64 yrs old.
08-31-2008, 08:01 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
No. There are a few 64 year olds going through training/IOE. The last bid the company posted stated that if you had not turned 64 by close of bid would be trained. I have my opinion why this more unusual position was taken for bid closing,etc, but it boils down to generally complying with the contract and a non precedent decision (IMO).
08-31-2008, 09:31 PM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: 109% IPA
Posts: 159
I thought the 767's were being brought on to replace the DC-8's going into retirement?
I sure hope they lead to vacancies!
I sure hope they lead to vacancies!
09-01-2008, 04:31 AM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Left
Posts: 37
Over 60....
Roberto,
In the future please use the words NEAR DEAD or FAVRE's for discussing the demographics of our over 60 crewmembers. If you are trying to be accurate with your data (which you have always have been)... this nomenclature adds further credence to your deductions.
Striker.
In the future please use the words NEAR DEAD or FAVRE's for discussing the demographics of our over 60 crewmembers. If you are trying to be accurate with your data (which you have always have been)... this nomenclature adds further credence to your deductions.
Striker.
Last edited by Capt TedStriker; 09-01-2008 at 04:38 AM.
09-01-2008, 04:37 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 126
Roberto,
In the future please use the words NEAR DEAD or FARVE's for discussing the demographics of our over 60 crewmembers. If you are trying to be accurate with your data (which you have always have been)... this nomenclature adds further credence to your deductions.
Striker.
In the future please use the words NEAR DEAD or FARVE's for discussing the demographics of our over 60 crewmembers. If you are trying to be accurate with your data (which you have always have been)... this nomenclature adds further credence to your deductions.
Striker.
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