Dracma

R24 Guru's out there please comment based on your experience. Thanks.

On a Monday, my 6th consecutive day of R24 out of a block of 15 days, the scheduler calls me at 10:00L and tells me that he's releasing me for 1 in 7. I ask him to confirm my understanding that I will turn off my phone and not turn it back on until 10:00L on Tuesday. Anytime after 10:00L on Tuesday scheduling can call me and assign me a trip with a showtime no earlier than 24 hours out (10:00L on Wednesday).

The scheduler replies "no, that's one of the things they changed". He tells me that anytime during my 1 in 7 day off, scheduling can assign me a trip via VIPS and it is my responsibility to check VIPS regularly on my day off. He adds that they don't have to call me on my 1 in 7, but may due so as courtesy, and are only required to put the assignment in VIPS.

The way I understand his version is that, in theory, scheduling can place an assignment in VIPS at 10:01L on Monday with a showtime of 10:01L on Tuesday. If this is correct, what is the difference between a normal day of duty on R24 and a day off on R24? Except that the day off reduces the workload for scheduling because they don't have to make a phone call, just put it in VIPS.

I've read all sections of the contract and also LOA's. Don't see anything about "things they've changed".

HoursHore

click on the little legal scales next to the R-24 part of the contract. Thats where the change is described.

fedupbusdriver

A reserve pilot released from availability or duty for 24 hours, (e.g., 24 hour or greater layover during a trip, released for international buffer, or day off), is assumed to have received a release for 1-in-7. A reserve pilot, during a block of R-days, without an assignment must be notified prior to the beginning of any release that is to satisfy 1-in-7. An R-24 pilot who is released for a 1-in-7 will not be required to be available for notification during his 1-in-7 but will be responsible for an assignment placed in VIPS during that period, provided such assignment is posted at least 24 hours prior to showtime.

from the cba 25M.1i

Purple Nugget

Yup, there is no difference. It may sound nice, that you get a call to tell you you are "released" for a day off, but that is just a technicality. I would just treat it like you were still on reserve, now you just have to check VIPS a few times that day. (In effect, more work on your day off, than just having your phone on.)

Again, it is just a technicality. Since if they assign you a trip, boom - there's your 24 hours off; now go work for 6 more days. But if you are on call for 6 days in a row, then they have to give you that "24 hours off" so the computer can see that you had a 1-in-7. But even if they assign you a trip, you will still, in effect, have a 24 hour off period before your trip.

Slightly confusing, but just don't treat it as a day "off." You're still 24 hours away from a trip. It's the same as the fact they can assign you a trip on your 1st R-24 day after scheduled days off.

Micro

I'm not sure the 10:00L to 10:00L is in line with the FAA rules. I believe that the FAA says if you get a 1 in 7 at your domicile, it must be in line with the duty day; ie. 1:30L to 1:30L. (words to that effect). I'd check the FAA regs and give the union a call (of course they won't get back to you until you make a second call/e-mail and then a week or so later for the response)

Purple Nugget

Micro, the 10:00-10:00 fits within FAA rules. Other airlines typically have the "in domicle" or "calendar day" written into their contract, but just a 24 hour off period is all that is required.

Otherwise these trips would have to be rebuilt to fly back to MEM, to satisfy the 1-in-7 requirement...

A300, Trip 187/21SEP
727, Trip 292/07SEP

fdx727pilot

Have to disagree. We get many 24 hr off periods in the field that don't conform to any calender or duty day. As long as in any given 7 calender day period, you have a 24 hr period released from duty (either at home or on a layover,) you are legal. 1 in 7 has nothing to do with domicile, either. That is 1 in 10. This is my reference.

Subpart S—Flight Time Limitations:
Supplemental Operations
Part 121.503 (c)

(c) Each certificate holder conducting
supplemental operations shall
relieve each pilot from all duty for at
least 24 consecutive hours at least once
during any seven consecutive days.

And the contract references

Section C. 1.

b. 1-in-7


A pilot shall be relieved from all duty for at least 24 consecutive hours at least once during any seven consecutive days.


c. 1-in-10


A pilot assigned exclusively to domestic trips within a period of 240 hours shall be scheduled to be relieved from all duty at his base for at least 24 consecutive hours at least once during that period. A pilot may waive the provisions of this paragraph to prevent a phase-in conflict, by indicating his waiver when he submits his bid. It shall not be a violation of this rule if a pilot would have received the relief from duty required by this paragraph but for a bid line adjustment, reassignment trip, or a volunteer or draft assignment.

joepilot

Pilots frequently refer to 1 in 7, but the FAR says 24 hours free of duty once each seven days. There is no requirement that this 24 hour period must be at home station.

The only reference to rest at home station is for international flights with flight time scheduled in excess of 12 hours in a duty period, which requires four crewmembers. If you have one of these trips, you are required to have 2 hours free of duty at home station for each hour of actual (not scheduled) flight time since last leaving home station. So, if you get a six day trip, such as ORD-HKG-SIN-HKG-ORD, which takes about 37 hours of flight time, you would be entitled to 74 hours free of duty after getting back to home station. Note: Even though the HKG-SIN-HKG legs only require a basic two pilot crew, and are flown that way, your two for one rest is calculated based on total flight time since leaving home station. See FAR 121.485.

Some union contracts are more restrictive.

Joe

Micro

I had understood that the "local day" requirement was for being in domicile and not in the field. However, as has been pointed out I seem to be mistaken. I'll keep looking and will post if I find a reference. Thanks for keeping me honest.

Dracma

Fedup,
Thanks so much. That's exactly what I was looking for. I must have read it ten times prior to posting the thread....guess I was just in denial.
I still think it's B.S. It actually makes me work harder on my day off because I have to keep checking VIPS instead of just carrying the cell phone.
It kind of reminds me of the 1.5 hour call out for the other R periods. Due to the fine print, everyone is still always on a 1 hour leash.