New HKG F/O Posting out Today
08-23-2008, 04:49 AM
#202
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
THANK YOU. I'm glad others feel this way.
I still can't get over his "if you could hold captain for the last two years and haven't upgraded you are part of the problem blah blah blah" rant to FOs.
I forwarded that email to every friend I have at other US airlines and they couldn't believe that's how we get spoken to around here.
I still can't get over his "if you could hold captain for the last two years and haven't upgraded you are part of the problem blah blah blah" rant to FOs.
I forwarded that email to every friend I have at other US airlines and they couldn't believe that's how we get spoken to around here.
Actually, from the management/bean counter/lawyer's point of view, are we ALL part of the problem?
08-23-2008, 11:12 AM
#203
Ok, No more sleeping Dog
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11, F/O
Posts: 889
08-23-2008, 03:02 PM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
passover pay hiring being a "problem needing to be fixed" is a red herring. The difference in pay is peanuts.
Excessing over 60 guys back to the front then, 2 months later, telling us with a panic stricken voice how we need to push guys back into the boeing to save money says volumes. Could have been a plan to reward a few individuals in management positions. Could have been plain old mismanagement. Could just be them crying wolf again. The bean counters want to cut some spending. That is what they do. They saw costs and savings to be had from putting the purple prunes back up front. Of course they didn't tell us some of the proposed savings was to push guys down with an excess bid. Since the excess didn't work out like they planned they want to shift the savings plan toward lowering BLGs on individual airplanes. That explains their frustration with us. We won't let these plans go thru. Maybe they wish they hadn't made the mistake of putting the over 60 guys back up front without positions for them to fill and they want us to pay for it.
We'll see if the financial gurus have it right. Their forecast is for volumes to continue to go down another 3-6 months. Doesn't matter how many new airplanes we get between now and then. If the freight isn't there it won't generate a need for training.
For what it's worth, I believe in Fuel sense. It's just we are not good at doing it yet. It takes each individual to keep on it to have some effect. We won't be able to do as well as we can due to organizational friction and some incompetence. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep up the effort.
Excessing over 60 guys back to the front then, 2 months later, telling us with a panic stricken voice how we need to push guys back into the boeing to save money says volumes. Could have been a plan to reward a few individuals in management positions. Could have been plain old mismanagement. Could just be them crying wolf again. The bean counters want to cut some spending. That is what they do. They saw costs and savings to be had from putting the purple prunes back up front. Of course they didn't tell us some of the proposed savings was to push guys down with an excess bid. Since the excess didn't work out like they planned they want to shift the savings plan toward lowering BLGs on individual airplanes. That explains their frustration with us. We won't let these plans go thru. Maybe they wish they hadn't made the mistake of putting the over 60 guys back up front without positions for them to fill and they want us to pay for it.
We'll see if the financial gurus have it right. Their forecast is for volumes to continue to go down another 3-6 months. Doesn't matter how many new airplanes we get between now and then. If the freight isn't there it won't generate a need for training.
For what it's worth, I believe in Fuel sense. It's just we are not good at doing it yet. It takes each individual to keep on it to have some effect. We won't be able to do as well as we can due to organizational friction and some incompetence. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep up the effort.
Last edited by Gunter; 08-23-2008 at 03:16 PM.
08-23-2008, 03:29 PM
#205
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
We will all have a group hug at Fenwicks in Wan Chai next time we are there! There is plenty of blame to be spread around. Our apathetic pilot group, ALPA who does not support the majority of us even when they ask us what we think and the company who does their job and pays for the lowest bidder. Still a pretty damn good job though!
08-23-2008, 04:34 PM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
Maybe there is plenty of blame to go around....then maybe not. It was our NC's job to negotiate an LOA that benefited all pilots, and gave up nothing to the Company. He failed miserably, IMO. Therefore, the buck stops with him and all of our reps who pushed this POS on us against the advice of the Proponents of Hysteria!
08-23-2008, 07:11 PM
#208
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 355
Olly,
Welcome to both this board and to FedEx, it's good to have you here. Now for the reality check. While we're all glad you're here, you need to realize that when someone who is junior bids (and is awarded) a higher paying seat, he gives up: QOL; control over his schedule; control over his vacation days; control over training days; and he usually then spends 2 or more years moving "backwards", relative to the seniority in his base, a/c and seat. The rest of us all understand that, and now hopefully, you do too. As well, try to remember that just because you got a really, really, really good deal, to come to the worlds premier freight airline, as a widebody pilot, on international per diem, a lot of us spent 3, 4, or even 5 years, sitting sideways in the 727, suffering through a crappy reserve system. So pleeease, no lectures.
Welcome to both this board and to FedEx, it's good to have you here. Now for the reality check. While we're all glad you're here, you need to realize that when someone who is junior bids (and is awarded) a higher paying seat, he gives up: QOL; control over his schedule; control over his vacation days; control over training days; and he usually then spends 2 or more years moving "backwards", relative to the seniority in his base, a/c and seat. The rest of us all understand that, and now hopefully, you do too. As well, try to remember that just because you got a really, really, really good deal, to come to the worlds premier freight airline, as a widebody pilot, on international per diem, a lot of us spent 3, 4, or even 5 years, sitting sideways in the 727, suffering through a crappy reserve system. So pleeease, no lectures.
Dam_ glad to be here-
08-23-2008, 07:48 PM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 169
No lectures intended. Just responding to a statement that seemed false. Yes, I have gotten a good deal to go to the widebody, and like almost all the guys hired in the past several years, I've sat in the back of the 727 for several years, among other seats, suffering thru a crappier reserve system than fdx, as my airline of 4 for years went BK and I off to furlough.
Dam_ glad to be here-
Dam_ glad to be here-
08-24-2008, 03:34 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DC10 Captain
Posts: 284
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