RedeyeAV8r

Fr8hauler

Do you have a better system in mind than the seniority system?

R1200RT

OK, "Boy" when you come over with all your friends here we'll pull out the scales. I'm only .5" taller than you but I'm willing to bet you out weigh me by 25-30#s.
The Boy is too heavy for the carbon frame he tried it. Bent the frame and wheels.

We'll take pictures and post them. So, bring you lightest banana sling for the weigh in and picture.

Like the girls in college used to tell the boy, "I can drink you pretty, but I can't drink you thin." He was very lonely.

nightfreight

Tony,

The NDs are on our seniority list. So are the rest of us. You don't discard 97% of the members to take care of one special group.

I could possibly understand if we lost our pension like most major airlines. We take care of senior members of our union by being responsible pilots and ensuring (to the best of our ability) that we do our part to make this company successful (and all of our pensions). We offer them special help with medical costs. Pilots over 50 on the date of signing receive a retirement multiplier based on years of service with the company.

We weren't discarding the senior members by opposing retroactivity. I've heard the comments about lawsuits(or threats of lawsuits), and I think these claims are ridiculous. Obviously NWA wasn't worried about lawsuits. These guys have "got theirs" and could have stayed on as flight engineers or take one of the best retirement packages left in the industry.

The NDs raise was paid for by the rest of us that were displaced. You call that seniority, I call it selling out the majority of us. I will not support the union until we get new leadership. I have no trust in the current regime at all. Maybe if you displaced and faced a 20-40 dollar/hour paycut you might feel the same way. Maybe not....

R1200RT

Tony don't derail a rant with some logic.

fdxflyer

TonyC -

I tried to shorthand it so I didn't have to be long winded. I am glad you had fun with that, but I feel forced to expound on the "impression" phrase although I believe you and others are smart enough to know what I meant.

As the age 60 train was leaving the station, FDX ALPA pilots were being surveyed on what they believed should be done. (I am not going into every question - You and I argued over the way the answers were interpreted by the MEC on this forum and I assume we still do not agree.)
DW claimed to me that he hated that poll. He felt it would leave an unfortunate impression in our minds that the changing of the law could be stopped.
Prior to becoming law, the MEC and DW decided that they needed to represent all pilots seniority by adding the retro clause at the meeting of the executive council. DW submitted it was the "right thing to do" at a crew room meeting. He also told those assembled that he did not believe that it would actually pass.
So what is wrong? Well, that was actually a very divisive maneuver on his part. And THAT makes it poor leadership of a union. If he regretted the poll (and he said he did), he sure tried to make use of it in having FDX ALPA support ALPA in "shaping" the legislation. Come on TonyC. You remember. A strong majority were against any change, but if it was going to happen, they said the majority wanted some influence in the legislation.

BUT, obviously guys weren't planning on having that retro policy in shaping the legislation. Or were they sitting at home saying, "I don't want the rule to change, but if it is going to I sure hope I can move back 150 numbers before I get minimal seat progression!"

Then there was the FDA LOA. He was divisive, derogatory,and worse -- out of touch with the membership. Search the forum for the letter he wrote to the subic guy complaining about the LOA. Remember the guy he basically told to "get lost" and that the guy "wouldn't hold it anyway." Well, he was the number three FO and the base isn't filled. And as I heard someone point out, when he was rude to that guy, he was representing US. That was the MEC chairman talking - the guy who didn't know what he was talking about. He was so busy assuring us that he couldn't get a better deal, he didn't send BC back in there to try again. (And I know and so do you - so let's not be ridiculous - that you guys believe it was a negotiating failure.)

SO the "impression" I was referring to is the feeling in the crew force that DW is no longer an effective leader. And once that is the "impression" in a unity driven organization, it is sadly the reality. BUT YOU ALREADY KNEW THAT!

BOYCAPTAIN

r1200rt.....YAWN!

Deuce130

Tony, I've missed your posts on these boards - your wit, humor, and insight was fun to read whether I agreed or not. With that said, this comment doesn't help. I know what you mean, but as a MEC member you should probably refrain from these kind of "gotcha" comments. It just gets people riled up and sounds a little confrontational. I have to think that the last thing our MEC wants to be right now is confrontational with the membership. You probably could've given a much better response that got your point across without ruffling feathers. If I would've heard this kind of response over the phone from my block rep, I would've been PO'd. Unfortunately, you don't have anonymity anymore. IMO.

FDXLAG

fdxflyer don't derail a rant with some history.

Deuce130

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I'm losing my seat also, but the union is all we have. I will continue to support my union as I think everyone else should also. That doesn't mean I won't be critical, ask hard questions, or go along with every decision that's made. I get mad at my wife sometimes, too, but I don't kick her out of bed when I do.

Cujo

As a Nugget...both. I'll have to look at the employment letter when I get home from this trip.