Jetjok

I really don't know where you get off telling me I was pulling Boosts chain. His statement: "I want to stay in the MD 11 if possible but, if they send me to ANC immediately when I could have been based in MEM for the year or more it takes to send me to training then I would want to do that. Any ideas? The thought of another training cycle is dreadful after 3 in 3 years.", based on the fact that he's currently on the Mad Dog, sort of tells me he intends to stay put. With that in mind, I was only asking "what training?". There's nothing about his post, that's so obvious, as for one to come to the conclusion that he's wanting to change seats, or in fact, will be forced to.

Lifizgud

It seems that the junior MD11 guys from MEM are going to MD11 ANC. The MD11 ANC guys are moon-walking back to the 72 MEM. I think he was asking how long to spool up the 72 training for the ANC guys and start opening up slots in ANC to move into. Based on this timeline, he would like to delay in MEM hoping the madness fixes itself (777 bid this winter?), and if it looks unlikely, would rather train on another seat to stay in MEM. I can read between the lines because I wasn't called on reserve and got a good night's sleep.

MalteseX

I agree with the above......

And to respond to another thought to the original poster. I am voluntarily moving from ANC to a NB seat in MEM on this bid. I mean I bid to relieve.
In my case, as a commuter, it is better to stay in MEM---even at NB pay. My take home pay was (previously in MEM NB) and will be again higher than in ANC...

If you are planning on moving to ANC and using Sec 6 move package, or going from F/O to Capt (or just being able to hold Capt)--that's another issue. But if you are going to commute and are remaining an F/O---I'd seriously consider staying in MEM (even if you commute TO MEM).

The commute to ANC has been getting harder and harder even BEFORE this bid. Now it will probably become impossible. The difference in wb vs. narrow body pay for F/O (in my experience) has been eaten up in commuting costs (crash pad, hotel, days off given up, last minute airline tickets etc) and federal income taxes.

In my case, my takehome pay in a narrow body in MEM was no less than in ANC (after the commute became harder---in the last 2 years)---and the QOL was better. Oh yes, and if you're are on reserve, you commute is NOT protected while jumpeating (ie protected in MEM ONLY--got the letter in my file to back that up!!!)

Bottom Line: If you are an F/O and commute---I found it much better to be in MEM --even if you have to go NB (if you can hold a bus; a no-brainer)

capt_zman

As a mem 11 fo who is getting ready to go north, I've been looking at anc for well over a year now, and I can't see how you can break even as a n/b fo in mem. Here's how I am thinking, let me know where my mistake(s) are:

Year 4 WB FO at 134.49 vs. 114.76, so basically $20 more an hour. Add the $7 international and you're at $27 more an hour. In Nov this goes to $138.52 vs. $118.21, so it still stays at ~$27 more an hour.

Even after the excess bid closes, I'll be a line holder. Considering I'd have to make 1 or 2 trips TO ANC a month and 1 or 2 FROM ANC, I can't see how the extra costs in ANC make up a ~27k difference per year. Most guys around my seniority have a crashpad for ~200 per month, and I'm assuming I'd have to either go to a hotel or a bed & breakfast in ANC once or twice a month, which equates to ~$150 per month.

As for commuting, I go to and from MEM probably 3-4 times a month, which is not fun. Granted, it sounds easier than ANC, but it still stinks. Also, you do not have jumpseat protection for reserve in MEM, only 13.5 hour protection for trips. As for the nb trips (per my seniority), they really stink compared to the 11 trips.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything close to a 27k difference.

MaxKts

Have you looked at the ANC lines lately? It will be more like 3 or 4 commutes a month. You will be competing for j/s with a ton of guys and airline tickets are going up. Hotels in the summer are around $120 a night. some lines have 2 days between trips. How deep into that ~27K are you willing to dig?

capt_zman

It looks like I'd be able to hold a single DH line (either front end or back end), which means probably 1 trip to ANC and 2 home or vice versa. Not sure on the hotel prices up there, but $120/night isn't bad, especially since summer lasts 2 months up there. I was under the impression the Inlet towers was around 75 and the bed & breakfast was 65 per night.

Competing for jumpseats is nothing new. Just ask the JAX, ORF and DEN guys about that. Again, I don't know as I haven't done it yet, but it sounds a whole lot better to me than flying night hub turns for alot less money.

MalteseX

I'll try to explain what happened to me. Your figures sound OK and that's what I was thinking as well. And the first year I was there I made more. But then the lines changed. The one and two commutes became more rare. There were more and more lines with one and two days between trips. (you pay, but also they count as days off---this is huge... in MEM I was able to get at least 6 if not 12 CR for this time off and it doesn't count as days off).

In my experience the gross pay was more like 19K vs. 27 K. Just looking at the W-2s. A third of that was eaten up in taxes. A bit more union dues, insurance, and alaska unemployment. Higher SS taxes and medicare. The 7 dollars international pay was eaten up with a falling dollar (unrelated to AK vs MEM, but you go overseas more often).

Looking back, commutes were more like 3 per month. Usually had to drop one trip to make it reasonable. I could only hold the junk lines. Many more commutes. Bought 14 airline tickets last year due to no seats or no planes getting there the day I needed to be there. Total I spent for tickets was 4155. Crash Pad/Hotel/Car/transpo/parking (non-dev)/ and cab expenses totaled 7233. (Actual figures--I keep records). Add that to extra taxes, what I had to drop, a letter in my file (causes you to make sure you get there thereby spending more) extra SS, a falling dollar, and days off I could have been flying a NB in MEM adds up to less take home pay and a lot more headaches.

Even the first year where I made 6500 takehome more than in MEM, the headaches of the ugly commute did not make it worth it.

If you live there/move there/or are single.... go for it. I'm just throwing this out here to let people know what happened to me there (in great detail... but the nickel and dimes add up). So they can make an informed call.

My commute to MEM is much less expensive and stressful. That's why I bid to relieve from ANC to MEM NB. Of course, your mileage may vary. Maybe you can swing it with the $$$ and the stress. You can have my spot!!!!

MalteseX

If you can hold that, cool. I couldn't and definitely can't after the excess bid.
The towers is about that in the winter plus tax. But recently, you cannot seem to get a room at all do to the heavy volume of commuters (UPS mostly--new domicile)

MalteseX

That's what I have seen as well. And that has been my experience. Except that the actual W-2 difference was about 19K and that includes the extra Plan B (7%) added to the additional funds.

cma2407

I would agree 100%. It looks like I'll be getting excessed out of the left seat in ANC, and frankly, I am fine with that. This is my 2nd tour up there, and I voluntarily left ANC the first time to go back to Mempho. As a 40% FO in MEM, I made $26k more than I did the previous year in Anchorage. I just had a lot more flexibility. Here's a few other things to consider:

The Commute. You'll need to get there a day prior (at no pay) in order to be in position to fly an int'l flight. They normally leave in the morning. Whoa to the commuter who flies in and tries to operate out a few hours later. (A big No Go.) With a 12 hr commute plus being on station 24 hrs ahead of showtime--that's 36 hrs lost upfront. Figure 12-18 hrs on the back end commuting home. It's pretty easy to lose 3-5 days a month here, especially for a 2-leg commute.

Trip trading. This doesn't happen much in ANC. There's just not much to trade into. Get a garbage line with 3-4 days between trips, and you'll be gone for the month if you want to make BLG. Even with vacation and sick time, you'll have some bad months. If you are a DP flier...don't even think about it. The whole base will know who you are within weeks. That you do not want.

Secondary lines. Historically, secondaries have worked out pretty well personally. In ANC? Not so much. MS, the secondary scheduler, evidently has a problem with pilots and seems to pretty much ignore all requests. Many actually ask for the opposite of what they really want. This system is broken, and there seems to be no cure for it at this point.

Upgrade to Captain? If you sit RSV, count on 4.5 hrs a day vs. 6CH as an F/O lineholder down south. Do the math. You'll see the daily pay comes within a couple of tall boys of being virtually the same. RSV pilots get no int'l override and no per diem. Like I say...do the math. You will get some nice paychecks--which the taxman will take a bigger chunk of--and some that are less so.

Oh...if BLG's do get cut, RSV pilots will still sit 15/19 days per month. It would not be great to do 17-18 days (with commute) for 50 BLG. That is contractually legal. Will it get there? Who knows? I do know I'd rather be flying 8 days/mo as an FO. Otherwise, you could end up a half-step away from the ND's who are working for half pay.

Costs. You can get a crashpad in Mempho for $150. In ANC, expect to pay $250. Good luck with a B & B or Inlet towers during the season, especially with the influx of UPS guys. Cars? A Winter rental is a great deal at $20...which becomes $115 in the summer. You'll also be buying some airline tickets. A good chunk of making NW Silver Elite out of my own pocket. Sometimes by choice, but when the j/s's are filled in MEM and other bases, there are zero alternatives. You suck up a $600 ticket and go to work.

Exchange rates. We've heard enough about this lately. But your costs will go up accordingly. I just paid $56 last night for a chicken sandwich and 2 beers. You can use up that nickel increase in our per diem pretty fast. (It had 3 legs, but that was one fine chicken!)

Trips. The ANC bidpack is changing. There are now lots of 8-9CH trips from ANC-OAK-ANC...with days off before and after. More domestic stuff. You'll see lots of NRT and KIX as usual. Take a look at a bidpack, it may have changed since you last saw one.

All that being said, I do still like ANC. I've had a great time. The family has been understanding about it, and that's helped a lot. If I end up back as an FO in MEM, there will be some positives in a different way. I'll have a decent schedule, much less hassle, more days off at home, and I'll live with a pay cut that will end up being smaller than it may appear on the surface.

Sorry about the rant, but hopefully there's something here that is helpful to somebody considering a bid.