FDX: HKG rumors?
05-30-2008, 05:49 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: 757 Capt
Posts: 2,419
machz,
you're getting your timeline somewhat messed up.
67% of the enhancements occurred before voting on the LOA.
The 3 month invol STD was changed to 1 month via P.F.C, but, our NC made sure it wound up on paper....remember the scanned fax email you received prior to voting.
Weight allowance went up in a similar way prior to voting.
Only the seed money reared it's head in an ugly way after voting.
Think back to some of the diatribes posted 10 mos ago about yes voters, no voters. In this venue, the LOA was defeated handily. Unfortunately, most of us posters are proud proponents of hysteria. One of the individuals who was castigated over changing to a yes vote had the thought that perhaps it would be best to pass then have almost nobody bid it (think that was ?Bear?, one of our Subic guys)
And, on the it will go Senior, that comment was about the voluntary STV program, not the domicile.
As for the enhancements being negotiated right now. I believe that is due to the simple fact that the FDAs aren't filling with the folks the company was hoping for and approached the union to try and sweeten the deal. Personally, I would rather Fred try and improve the LOA deal now versus in 2 yrs.
And, sorry, I simply don't believe the assertion that the only airline who had engineers over 60 was FedEx. Certainly don't know how many there were/are out there, but, when you take a look at the airline paycharts on APC, we aren't the only airline listing FE payrates.
And yes, I think it would have been better if the Age 65 change had occurred after FedEx had retired all of our 3 man acft, sure would have been easier. But, it didn't happen that way. I think it is kind of slimey to tell a guy who was 59 & 364 that it is somehow okay for him to bid a window seat while at the same time telling the guy who is exactly 60 that it's too bad. And telling that 60 yr old the same thing for the next 3 years while he watches a 61-63 yr old bid Capt while he's locked into a SO seat just because he was born a day late.
But that's just me
you're getting your timeline somewhat messed up.
67% of the enhancements occurred before voting on the LOA.
The 3 month invol STD was changed to 1 month via P.F.C, but, our NC made sure it wound up on paper....remember the scanned fax email you received prior to voting.
Weight allowance went up in a similar way prior to voting.
Only the seed money reared it's head in an ugly way after voting.
Think back to some of the diatribes posted 10 mos ago about yes voters, no voters. In this venue, the LOA was defeated handily. Unfortunately, most of us posters are proud proponents of hysteria. One of the individuals who was castigated over changing to a yes vote had the thought that perhaps it would be best to pass then have almost nobody bid it (think that was ?Bear?, one of our Subic guys)
And, on the it will go Senior, that comment was about the voluntary STV program, not the domicile.
As for the enhancements being negotiated right now. I believe that is due to the simple fact that the FDAs aren't filling with the folks the company was hoping for and approached the union to try and sweeten the deal. Personally, I would rather Fred try and improve the LOA deal now versus in 2 yrs.
And, sorry, I simply don't believe the assertion that the only airline who had engineers over 60 was FedEx. Certainly don't know how many there were/are out there, but, when you take a look at the airline paycharts on APC, we aren't the only airline listing FE payrates.
And yes, I think it would have been better if the Age 65 change had occurred after FedEx had retired all of our 3 man acft, sure would have been easier. But, it didn't happen that way. I think it is kind of slimey to tell a guy who was 59 & 364 that it is somehow okay for him to bid a window seat while at the same time telling the guy who is exactly 60 that it's too bad. And telling that 60 yr old the same thing for the next 3 years while he watches a 61-63 yr old bid Capt while he's locked into a SO seat just because he was born a day late.
But that's just me
05-30-2008, 07:10 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
The LOA is what it is. FE will fix it the best he can, but it will look largely like it does now.
I don't think the pilot group, collectively, cares. They only know they don't have to worry about it.
If the company complains that we aren't bidding it, so what? That is the best negotiating leverage we can get for making it better.
There will not be a furlough to help fill it. There may be newhires going. There will probably be STV.
I say again, there is no problem. Just ask the cats who read this thread and can only think about their chicken salad.
I don't think the pilot group, collectively, cares. They only know they don't have to worry about it.
If the company complains that we aren't bidding it, so what? That is the best negotiating leverage we can get for making it better.
There will not be a furlough to help fill it. There may be newhires going. There will probably be STV.
I say again, there is no problem. Just ask the cats who read this thread and can only think about their chicken salad.
Last edited by Gunter; 05-30-2008 at 07:36 PM.
05-30-2008, 07:51 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 777 CAP
Posts: 494
machz,
you're getting your timeline somewhat messed up.
67% of the enhancements occurred before voting on the LOA.
The 3 month invol STD was changed to 1 month via P.F.C, but, our NC made sure it wound up on paper....remember the scanned fax email you received prior to voting.
Weight allowance went up in a similar way prior to voting.
Only the seed money reared it's head in an ugly way after voting.
Think back to some of the diatribes posted 10 mos ago about yes voters, no voters. In this venue, the LOA was defeated handily. Unfortunately, most of us posters are proud proponents of hysteria. One of the individuals who was castigated over changing to a yes vote had the thought that perhaps it would be best to pass then have almost nobody bid it (think that was ?Bear?, one of our Subic guys)
And, on the it will go Senior, that comment was about the voluntary STV program, not the domicile.
As for the enhancements being negotiated right now. I believe that is due to the simple fact that the FDAs aren't filling with the folks the company was hoping for and approached the union to try and sweeten the deal. Personally, I would rather Fred try and improve the LOA deal now versus in 2 yrs.
And, sorry, I simply don't believe the assertion that the only airline who had engineers over 60 was FedEx. Certainly don't know how many there were/are out there, but, when you take a look at the airline paycharts on APC, we aren't the only airline listing FE payrates.
And yes, I think it would have been better if the Age 65 change had occurred after FedEx had retired all of our 3 man acft, sure would have been easier. But, it didn't happen that way. I think it is kind of slimey to tell a guy who was 59 & 364 that it is somehow okay for him to bid a window seat while at the same time telling the guy who is exactly 60 that it's too bad. And telling that 60 yr old the same thing for the next 3 years while he watches a 61-63 yr old bid Capt while he's locked into a SO seat just because he was born a day late.
But that's just me
you're getting your timeline somewhat messed up.
67% of the enhancements occurred before voting on the LOA.
The 3 month invol STD was changed to 1 month via P.F.C, but, our NC made sure it wound up on paper....remember the scanned fax email you received prior to voting.
Weight allowance went up in a similar way prior to voting.
Only the seed money reared it's head in an ugly way after voting.
Think back to some of the diatribes posted 10 mos ago about yes voters, no voters. In this venue, the LOA was defeated handily. Unfortunately, most of us posters are proud proponents of hysteria. One of the individuals who was castigated over changing to a yes vote had the thought that perhaps it would be best to pass then have almost nobody bid it (think that was ?Bear?, one of our Subic guys)
And, on the it will go Senior, that comment was about the voluntary STV program, not the domicile.
As for the enhancements being negotiated right now. I believe that is due to the simple fact that the FDAs aren't filling with the folks the company was hoping for and approached the union to try and sweeten the deal. Personally, I would rather Fred try and improve the LOA deal now versus in 2 yrs.
And, sorry, I simply don't believe the assertion that the only airline who had engineers over 60 was FedEx. Certainly don't know how many there were/are out there, but, when you take a look at the airline paycharts on APC, we aren't the only airline listing FE payrates.
And yes, I think it would have been better if the Age 65 change had occurred after FedEx had retired all of our 3 man acft, sure would have been easier. But, it didn't happen that way. I think it is kind of slimey to tell a guy who was 59 & 364 that it is somehow okay for him to bid a window seat while at the same time telling the guy who is exactly 60 that it's too bad. And telling that 60 yr old the same thing for the next 3 years while he watches a 61-63 yr old bid Capt while he's locked into a SO seat just because he was born a day late.
But that's just me
Last edited by machz990; 05-30-2008 at 08:09 PM.
05-30-2008, 08:09 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 1559
Posts: 1,535
Maybe it was the best the MEC could get at the time and maybe the company really had dug their heals in. But then the crew force (FO's anyway) called the company's bluff and didn't bid it. Doesn't anyone think that that just may be the major driving force in the enhancements?
It's like telling your kid the stove is hot. The NC very well could've told the company that it wasn't enough and just like the kid, the company had to touch the stove.
It's like telling your kid the stove is hot. The NC very well could've told the company that it wasn't enough and just like the kid, the company had to touch the stove.
Last edited by MX727; 05-30-2008 at 08:26 PM.
05-30-2008, 08:11 PM
#27
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 52
Kronan,
Let's straighten out a few of your points. As far as 67% of the enhancements occurring before the end of the voting, then why would there be any negotiating going on? Don't you think it would've been complete and out to the crewforce long ago? You (as I) probably don't know what all the "enhancements" are going to be, but don't count on much. And, I'll bet the "Enhanced LOA" still won't be out to the crew before the bid is out . . . AGAIN. Figure that one out.
Also, as far as the Union saying it would only be Voluntary STV that would go senior, that's flat out wrong. Example; I personally saw a letter from DW to one of our junior pilots stating that judging by his employee number, he would never be able to hold F/O in HKG. That F/O ended up #3 after the bid.
Finally, as far as the individual who changed his vote on the LOA to yes, there's a little more to it than that. He urged everyone to vote yes, then not bid the FDAs. He then proceeded to bid and hold CDG, that award got cancelled and he has proceeded to bid HKG. And yup, he was held to task for it.
Cos
Let's straighten out a few of your points. As far as 67% of the enhancements occurring before the end of the voting, then why would there be any negotiating going on? Don't you think it would've been complete and out to the crewforce long ago? You (as I) probably don't know what all the "enhancements" are going to be, but don't count on much. And, I'll bet the "Enhanced LOA" still won't be out to the crew before the bid is out . . . AGAIN. Figure that one out.
Also, as far as the Union saying it would only be Voluntary STV that would go senior, that's flat out wrong. Example; I personally saw a letter from DW to one of our junior pilots stating that judging by his employee number, he would never be able to hold F/O in HKG. That F/O ended up #3 after the bid.
Finally, as far as the individual who changed his vote on the LOA to yes, there's a little more to it than that. He urged everyone to vote yes, then not bid the FDAs. He then proceeded to bid and hold CDG, that award got cancelled and he has proceeded to bid HKG. And yup, he was held to task for it.
Cos
05-30-2008, 08:50 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
You guys are right the MEC negotiated the best deal they could get at the time. Stupid to think other wise 
.
Now lets talk about due diligence in checking out the local area. That probably couldn't have been improved either.
.Now lets talk about due diligence in checking out the local area. That probably couldn't have been improved either.
05-31-2008, 05:25 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Kronan,
Also, as far as the Union saying it would only be Voluntary STV that would go senior, that's flat out wrong. Example; I personally saw a letter from DW to one of our junior pilots stating that judging by his employee number, he would never be able to hold F/O in HKG. That F/O ended up #3 after the bid.
Finally, as far as the individual who changed his vote on the LOA to yes, there's a little more to it than that. He urged everyone to vote yes, then not bid the FDAs. He then proceeded to bid and hold CDG, that award got cancelled and he has proceeded to bid HKG. And yup, he was held to task for it.
Cos
Also, as far as the Union saying it would only be Voluntary STV that would go senior, that's flat out wrong. Example; I personally saw a letter from DW to one of our junior pilots stating that judging by his employee number, he would never be able to hold F/O in HKG. That F/O ended up #3 after the bid.
Finally, as far as the individual who changed his vote on the LOA to yes, there's a little more to it than that. He urged everyone to vote yes, then not bid the FDAs. He then proceeded to bid and hold CDG, that award got cancelled and he has proceeded to bid HKG. And yup, he was held to task for it.
Cos
If anyone is worried about filling the vacancies they should look not to the majority of the FO's and SO's who voted no, but to the FO's who voted yes. We should give all of them a call, send them an e-mail and basically pester them by encouraging them to bid it. Maybe they won't vote for something so poor the next time.
BTW, who did the vote yes and don't bid it so I can bid it dance?
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