FDX - Cap and Bank
05-28-2008, 04:04 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
I think I like this take. My biggest complaint with CO is guys are working for straight pay. If we capped CO then the company will have to fill the trips with draft. However, under your idea the pay would be better than straight pay and if you are senior then you can bid for the higher paying lines. If the company would rather hire more people and then have them do nothing in down times then they can do that. The bean counters are pretty good about not hiring when we don't need to, so I'd say either the CO would diminish CO or more probably the guys who want to fly extra can and get paid much more.
My own experience on the 727 is that the guys who get the most vlt/drt are either local flex instructors of Memphis guys...which makes sense. By definition, VLT and DFT are short notice responses to manning shortfalls, and the schedulers need guys who are ready to go NOW. I know there are some commuters who sometimes get called, and getting drafted in the field is also lucrative. VLT/DFT is a great thing. However, I am also sure that the next complaint would be "how come all the SAME guys get all the draft trips?"
I've been cautioned to make sure that as a union officer I watch what I say, as the difference is what I think and what the position of the association are can easily get blurred. What I am trying to do, however, is point out there are tradeoffs to any system. We've got a solid company, good pay and benefits, and nobody is on the street right now. Before I start tinkering with any of the gears I just want to make sure we don't break the machine or create a system that doesn't work as well as what we already have.
05-28-2008, 05:08 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 777 Multi-tasker
Posts: 712
And who gets most of the draft trips? How many times did you get a trip on VLT?
My own experience on the 727 is that the guys who get the most vlt/drt are either local flex instructors of Memphis guys...which makes sense. By definition, VLT and DFT are short notice responses to manning shortfalls, and the schedulers need guys who are ready to go NOW. I know there are some commuters who sometimes get called, and getting drafted in the field is also lucrative. VLT/DFT is a great thing. However, I am also sure that the next complaint would be "how come all the SAME guys get all the draft trips?"
I've been cautioned to make sure that as a union officer I watch what I say, as the difference is what I think and what the position of the association are can easily get blurred. What I am trying to do, however, is point out there are tradeoffs to any system. We've got a solid company, good pay and benefits, and nobody is on the street right now. Before I start tinkering with any of the gears I just want to make sure we don't break the machine or create a system that doesn't work as well as what we already have.
My own experience on the 727 is that the guys who get the most vlt/drt are either local flex instructors of Memphis guys...which makes sense. By definition, VLT and DFT are short notice responses to manning shortfalls, and the schedulers need guys who are ready to go NOW. I know there are some commuters who sometimes get called, and getting drafted in the field is also lucrative. VLT/DFT is a great thing. However, I am also sure that the next complaint would be "how come all the SAME guys get all the draft trips?"
I've been cautioned to make sure that as a union officer I watch what I say, as the difference is what I think and what the position of the association are can easily get blurred. What I am trying to do, however, is point out there are tradeoffs to any system. We've got a solid company, good pay and benefits, and nobody is on the street right now. Before I start tinkering with any of the gears I just want to make sure we don't break the machine or create a system that doesn't work as well as what we already have.
05-28-2008, 05:13 AM
#14
Trust but Verify!!
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD11 CRA
Posts: 684
"So what are you willing to give up for this?"
Since I have no idea where the company will be financially during our next negotiations I am not prepared to answer that. Besides, I am not advocating it as much as presenting it as an idea instead of trying to institute a Cap and Bank system. However, if, (and I do mean if), they are making record profits then why shouldn't your question be what are they willing to give up in order to keep it? If things aren't too rosy then that makes it a different negotiations mind set altogether. As an aside, I really wish as a pilot group we would approach things more from a perspective that we are worth top dollar for the service we provide instead of buying into the JL theory that we have no special skills worthy of better pay and packages.
Since I have no idea where the company will be financially during our next negotiations I am not prepared to answer that. Besides, I am not advocating it as much as presenting it as an idea instead of trying to institute a Cap and Bank system. However, if, (and I do mean if), they are making record profits then why shouldn't your question be what are they willing to give up in order to keep it? If things aren't too rosy then that makes it a different negotiations mind set altogether. As an aside, I really wish as a pilot group we would approach things more from a perspective that we are worth top dollar for the service we provide instead of buying into the JL theory that we have no special skills worthy of better pay and packages.
05-28-2008, 06:23 AM
#15
Gets Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Nordskog Industries Field Technician
Posts: 688
Maybe I'm out of the loop but why is this even an issue? You don't like carryover? Don't fly it. Your feelings are hurt that some guy flies a ton on days off? Get over it.
The company builds carryover in order to crew flights, which in turn, gets packages where they need to go, which is the business of Fed Ex. They don't build carryover to screw the pilots out of money.
So, the single advantage of Cap and Bank, or as I like to call it 'Communism', is that we will hire more pilots. What else does it do for us? I, like the original poster, would like to know more on how changing the system would be advantageous.
The company builds carryover in order to crew flights, which in turn, gets packages where they need to go, which is the business of Fed Ex. They don't build carryover to screw the pilots out of money.
So, the single advantage of Cap and Bank, or as I like to call it 'Communism', is that we will hire more pilots. What else does it do for us? I, like the original poster, would like to know more on how changing the system would be advantageous.
Last edited by md11phlyer; 05-28-2008 at 08:08 AM.
05-28-2008, 11:10 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Maybe I'm out of the loop but why is this even an issue? You don't like carryover? Don't fly it. Your feelings are hurt that some guy flies a ton on days off? Get over it.
The company builds carryover in order to crew flights, which in turn, gets packages where they need to go, which is the business of Fed Ex. They don't build carryover to screw the pilots out of money.
So, the single advantage of Cap and Bank, or as I like to call it 'Communism', is that we will hire more pilots. What else does it do for us? I, like the original poster, would like to know more on how changing the system would be advantageous.
The company builds carryover in order to crew flights, which in turn, gets packages where they need to go, which is the business of Fed Ex. They don't build carryover to screw the pilots out of money.
So, the single advantage of Cap and Bank, or as I like to call it 'Communism', is that we will hire more pilots. What else does it do for us? I, like the original poster, would like to know more on how changing the system would be advantageous.
Thanks to our over mannng that 100 hours of pay has equated to about 10 work days a month. Now that carry over is reduced and R-24 sucks I will have to work the next couple of months to earn my 80 hours. I really like carry over. I just think it is a good deal for the company and bad deal for the pilot group as a whole.
Can anyone explain to me why carry over and CIC count towards leveling. OK, I get that you guys don't give a rats A$$ about the poolies and want to keep carry over; what I don't get is why you want to reward overtime straight pay with extra goodies. I have 88 hours of leveling this month and I dont pull my first R Day till Friday.
05-28-2008, 11:16 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Carry-over has all but been eliminated. The company wants to keep a little of it so it is easy to crank back up. We can't change that.
Our average line was 65 hrs for June. Do the math on the 4:11 reserve guarantee.
How many lines at what average value would earn your approval. 60, 55 hrs??
I think you are throwing around the pull up the ladder term too loosely.
Our average line was 65 hrs for June. Do the math on the 4:11 reserve guarantee.
How many lines at what average value would earn your approval. 60, 55 hrs??
I think you are throwing around the pull up the ladder term too loosely.
Last edited by Gunter; 05-28-2008 at 11:57 AM. Reason: grammar
05-28-2008, 11:23 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Some of the carryover are weekend layovers too. Another attempt to pad the flying hours available for the bid pack.
I think you need to study the bid pack more closely and realize how much is being done to lower the ladder.
I think you need to study the bid pack more closely and realize how much is being done to lower the ladder.
05-28-2008, 11:26 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Carry-over has all but been eliminated. The company wants to keep a little of it so it is easy to crank back up. We can't change that.
Our average line was 65 hrs for June. Do the math on the 4:11 reserve guarantee.
How many lines at what average value would earn your approval. 60, 55 hrs??
I think you throwing around the pull up the ladder term too loosely.
Our average line was 65 hrs for June. Do the math on the 4:11 reserve guarantee.
How many lines at what average value would earn your approval. 60, 55 hrs??
I think you throwing around the pull up the ladder term too loosely.
. I wonder where I got that pull up the ladder line?
