Define Turbine PIC
05-08-2008, 08:13 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Gulfstream 4SP & 5
Posts: 116
Define Turbine PIC
To all you UPS and FDX guys. I am a wanna be cargo pilot, but in my present life I am a 91 corporate pilot flying a Hawker and GV. We fly with 2 type rated pilots and swith seats every leg. We don't "Sign" for the airplane so how should I log it so it doens't look like I'm "padding" the book? Right now I just log PIC when I'm in the left and SIC when I'm in the right. Thanks guys!
05-08-2008, 08:53 AM
#3
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Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 43
If you are consistently showing PIC for left-seat legs and SIC for right-seat legs, it will go a long way towards letting the interviewer know that you are being up-front and honest about your records. I was asked about this very situation at my FedEx interview when they were reviewing my logbooks. Make sure that when you are the PIC that you are the one planning and filing the flight plan listing you as PIC. Interviewers have a knack for picking up on even the smallest of inconsistencies.
05-08-2008, 09:16 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
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DSFlyer,
You're doing it exactly right. No one was ever hurt by the truth, except perhaps here on this board.
If you're in the left seat, log PIC, regardless of who did the flight plan, weather, or anything else. After all, most captains delegate the majority of those menial
tasks to the F/O or in some 3 person jets, the S/O.
JJ
You're doing it exactly right. No one was ever hurt by the truth, except perhaps here on this board.
If you're in the left seat, log PIC, regardless of who did the flight plan, weather, or anything else. After all, most captains delegate the majority of those menial tasks to the F/O or in some 3 person jets, the S/O.JJ
05-08-2008, 09:59 AM
#5
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JJ,
I understand what you're saying and agree with you in principle. However, I was asked point blank in my interview if I was the one that had planned and "signed for" (PIC on filed flight plan) each leg that I had logged the PIC time on. Not trying to argue, just pointing out that this may in fact be asked at an interview. I hate surprise questions in these situations and interviewers are trained to pick on subtle reactions to different or unexpected questions. I have both been the interviewee and the interviewer for several airlines. It's amazing how one unexpected question can steer the course of an interview in a different direction. Hopefully, our resident expert Albie can chime in.
I understand what you're saying and agree with you in principle. However, I was asked point blank in my interview if I was the one that had planned and "signed for" (PIC on filed flight plan) each leg that I had logged the PIC time on. Not trying to argue, just pointing out that this may in fact be asked at an interview. I hate surprise questions in these situations and interviewers are trained to pick on subtle reactions to different or unexpected questions. I have both been the interviewee and the interviewer for several airlines. It's amazing how one unexpected question can steer the course of an interview in a different direction. Hopefully, our resident expert Albie can chime in.
05-08-2008, 10:22 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Airbus F/O
Posts: 297
Just get your name on the flt plan for the legs you fly.
From the pilot.fedex website for qualifications-
# 1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof, including a minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof.
Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls.
Note: FedEx considers only pilot time in fixed wing aircraft toward minimum qualifications. This does not include simulator, helicopter, flight engineer, bombardier, navigator, RIO, EWO, WSO, NFO, or Special Crew.
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From the pilot.fedex website for qualifications-
# 1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof, including a minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof.
Note: PIC for this purpose is defined as Captain/Aircraft Commander of record, not simply the sole manipulator of the controls.
Note: FedEx considers only pilot time in fixed wing aircraft toward minimum qualifications. This does not include simulator, helicopter, flight engineer, bombardier, navigator, RIO, EWO, WSO, NFO, or Special Crew.
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05-08-2008, 11:17 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
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To all you UPS and FDX guys. I am a wanna be cargo pilot, but in my present life I am a 91 corporate pilot flying a Hawker and GV. We fly with 2 type rated pilots and swith seats every leg. We don't "Sign" for the airplane so how should I log it so it doens't look like I'm "padding" the book? Right now I just log PIC when I'm in the left and SIC when I'm in the right. Thanks guys!
USMCFLYR
05-08-2008, 11:24 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: Gulfstream 4SP & 5
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USMCFLYR,
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
05-08-2008, 12:13 PM
#9
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
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USMCFLYR,
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
05-08-2008, 12:15 PM
#10
Rubber dogsh#t out of HKG
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: Senior Seat Cushion Tester Extraordinaire
Posts: 625
USMCFLYR,
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
That is the problem, There is no designation at all on capt. or f/o. Our trip sheets just say "crew members". No we don't have to sign out the airplane or anything like that. We just know our trips so we go and do them, and come home when we are done. The only thing is when I file flight plans I put my name as PIC for all the legs because we don't know which legs we will be flying ahead of time. We figure that out between the two of us when we close the hatch!
A former employer of mine was blamed and violated for an accident that was caused by the crew (even by their own admission). The company had not a designated PIC for the trip even though one pilot's name was on the filed flight plan.
I know, there are issues with this story as I am sure the NTSB's report was more pragmatic. From what I understand, the FAA's view was that neither pilot knew who was the PIC and that this contributed to the events leading to the accident.
Anyway, just saying in case you want to bring it up to your current employer.
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