de727ups

"the geezers have every right to take advantage of the change"

The only guys that bother me, over the age 65 issue, are the ones that had medical problems and were drawing benefits. Then, when the stakes were raised, somehow they were cured of their problem. I don't know if we have any like that but supposedly there were a few at Purple.

Freightpuppy

I know but I wanted to know what 767pilot had to say about that.

Freightpuppy

Amen bro. Amen.
At least I have respect for someone that says it like it is not someone who gives me a bunch of b.s. like the "discrimination" crapola.

REGHI

I've read everything so far, and I'm not convinced that I should support not picking up open time so someone in the pool can get hired sooner or so that someone junior can move up faster. Didn't make sense to me in 92 and it doesn't make sense now.


I agree....however.....nobody is moving UP or being HIRED. We are being DISPLACED and moving BACKWARDS! Our quality of life is significantly changing (those of us on the bottom of the list). Let's take it easy on the open time until we get moving in the right direction again.

Regards,
REGHI

Vman

It seems some have the motives and intension of junior crew members all wrong! It’s not about moving up faster, but about minimizing turmoil. IPA personnel will tell you this is the “perfect storm” on crews. The displacement of the 74 crews, the age 60 law passage, high fuel prices, and a sluggish economy have the potential of inflicting significant uncertainty.

Is it wrong for the junior crewmembers to not want to be displaced again from Anchorage? Should we want to remove our children from schools again, to pull our spouse out of the university or new job, to attempt selling a newly purchased home…? I don’t think we’re being greedy, just wishing for a place to set up and provide for those whom we have responsibility.

Additionally, just because something happened in the past doesn’t necessarily imply it was right and should be continued; especially if the members of a group can influence the system otherwise. But for some, it appears, considering the impact of their actions, on others, is very difficult.

Sideshow Bob

It's not unlike the difference between prejudice and any [fill in the blank]-ism. Virtually everyone has prejudices about pretty much anything...it's unavoidable. The acid test is IMO how those prejudices manifest themselves that matters. Hell...if looks could kill in Dubai I wouldn't be typing this, but since nothing happened, the only outcome of it was the hair standing up on the back of my neck. I got over it.

As for "greed", pretty much everyone has some of that running around in them. In this instance a majority of "older" people's greed resulted in them mounting a successful campaign to amend a long standing law (however flawed) to their benefit at a convenient time. Not to right some horrendous social injustice like slavery, genocide or leisure suits but mainly to enhance their bank accounts. The only "greed" that junior folks can seriously be accused of is wanting the same playing field that the majority of the crusaders had to play on. If it's all about justice and the American way, guys like Roberto could contribute a portion of their additional windfall to the junior "disenfranchised" by their bounty. In fact, I suggested just that to him on the IPA forum, and he said it was fair. But that was then, and this is now...big surprise. Macro-economics may not be a pizza model, where if someone gets a larger slice someone else gets a smaller one, but within a given seniority list it sure seems to be. And some may actually end up with cardboard to eat.

de727ups

"But for some, it appears, considering the impact of their actions, on others, is very difficult"

I see that as a two way street. Would be easy for me to make the same statement....

767pilot

Not sure I get your point. Greed or not, the reason that they went there is because they wanted to and were senior enough to. You and I will be in a different pension condition than they are when we reach 60, and our decisions may be different.

Shaggy1970

[quote=de727ups;360957]Well, it sounds like the open time issue is seen by some as the classic "old senior guys vs new hire junior guys" argument with the complaint that the IPA is run by "old senior guys". Too bad we have to split up the pilot group up like that.

I don't think the open time issue is at the heart of the "old senior guys vs new hire junior guys" at all. Your right though, there is going to be a rift created. Its going to be intresting to see what happens when we start working on the next contract. The F/O's (new guys) will be the majority and the old timers will be the minority. I think it will be time to have a few new guys sitting on the EB and equal out the playing field. It will be fun to watch.

de727ups

"I don't think the open time issue is at the heart of the "old senior guys vs new hire junior guys" at all."

Well, then I guess I'm barking up the wrong tree. All I know is there are some real senior Capts that have taught me a lot about flying jets over the years that cherry pick the open time (like me). Guys I walked the picket line at BFI with. It just doesn't seem right to me to tell them they can't pick up open time. Now, if Sutton comes out and says "enjoy your time off this summer", that's the clue that many of us need to hear. The union will have to raise it to that level to get the attention of many.

"when we start working on the next contract. The F/O's (new guys) will be the majority"

Yeah, but by then they won't be the "new guys" anymore. I guess your point is they will still be F/O's cause of age 65.