BrownBusDriver

Unfortunately, history shows that opentime is flown mostly by Res on days off is the Res duty is light. Generally, when the company does something stupid like, minimum manning, the result is that the Reserves fly more, because the Reserve guys on days off pick up less. The more senior still accrue extra credit by bidding carry-in and the higher credit lines which result in the next couple of schedule bids from the opentime pickup. THe mgmt. guys then have to cover the rest, and still no hiring is done. THe good news is maybe the mgmt. guys will get tired and push them alittle further towards unionization.

THis summer will get real interesting if the company furthers net displacements off other fleets.

BrownBusDriver

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Wow, I must say I'm surprised to hear this from someone whose profile "says" 'click here to see how I became a UPS pilot.'

After all it's stories like yours that made people like myself and other junior guys/gals to keep working extra hard to get hired at UPS thinking that they ofered a great career, ESPECIALLY considering the facts of seniority advancement we all had at the time.
All of a sudden a system that's been in effect pretty much since WW2 and which had benefited thousands of pilots, including you, gets pulled from underneath the junior guys. The junior guys lose 5 years worth of expected earnings and quality of life improvement. For senior guys, like you, all that means is an additional 5 years worth of making well over quarter million dollars a year.

Yeah, I'd say it's a huge "personal sacrifice" for you not to pick up any more open time.

It’s your right of course, but It would be an understatement for me to say that many junior guys feel very disappointed when we hear statements like that from senior pilots.

Starting to realize that the senior pilots will probably vote to make age 65 a “normal” retirement age in our next contract so the junior guys won't even be able to go at 60 if they want (unless they are willing to take an ”early” retirement penalty). I’m sure UPS will throw in some kind of bonus to the senior guys so they give up age 60 altogether for the juniors - the senior guys won't be able see why the should "make a personal sacrifice for the junior guys all over again."

It's very sad...

767pilot

The age 60 rule came out a good bit after WW2, March 15, 1960.

I think anyone under age 60 is suffering short term from the change to this rule. Even if you are doing OK with seniority, you'll be five years below where you expected to be. Not asking you to shed crocodile tears, but it is a fact. We all lose the 5 years of quality of life improvements. Long term, maybe you and I will be able to benefit from an extra 5 years, maybe we won't. Too soon to tell. In the long term, we are all dead anyway.

As for the change in the normal retirement age....ygbsm. Every "older" guy that I know is afraid that the junior guys will trade out the age 60 normal retirement age for a few pieces of silver. The older guys still want age 60 as normal because most of us don't see ourselves doing this at age 61. Might be nice to have the option, but nicer to have the option to bail. Given the difficulty in changing the system under accounting rules, we may just be safe from this happening anyway.

PS- You probably should not be confusing "older" with "senior". We have quite a few older, junior guys and younger senior guys ( I'm not old yet <g> ) that may feel differently than you or I on this

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

Huh? I live in Tennessee and in our state sponsored dictionary “ain’t” is very much a word – I hear it every day.

Jeff Foxworthy Jokes: redneck dictionary

Personally I think you ain't right!

SonnyD

Really? Not THIS junior guy.

As for a five year delay, don't count on it. 62 will be the new 60.

Having a hard time empathizing with your complaint about being hit by a train most of us saw coming five or more years out. I'm not saying I like it, but really, what's your issue here?

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE

I said many, I didn't say all. I do know that the vast majority of pilots in my new hire class feel the way I do; I know because I asked them… As far as you being able to predict this law would happen as fast as it did and especially the way it was passed (in other words not being phased in gradually) all I can say is wow! Next time you play lottery please share your numbers because you seem to be able to predict the future...

767pilot - you have very a good point when it comes to confusing "older" with "senior" - in the future when I refer to older AND senior I'll call them 'grumpy old men' (and few women)

Freightpuppy

If that's the case why did EVERY SINGLE capt. and FO opening in ANC go to over 60 guys?

Just like with contract negotiations.....where was the mass exodus of over 60 FEs? Didn't happen.

bifff15

FP,

It's a simple answer: GREED.

Look at other posts, in particular those on the thread "not taking résumés, not hiring: why UPS @ job fair?" starting on page thirteen.

The replies are priceless, they actually help make my point.

Biff

PS Here is the link if I did it correctly:

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...=21297&page=13

Sideshow Bob

My position has always been that while disadvantageous to me personally, the geezers have every right to take advantage of the change. My only heartburn is the disingenuous self-serving Rosa Parks imitations by the overwhelming majority who grinned like the cheshire cat every time somebody got out of their way over the years...not a peep then. Now it's the civil rights crusade of the century.

Be like Gordon Gecko and call it what it is...greed. And I say good for them, and me if I'm forced by my own greed to stay on past 60. But trust me, I'll call it what it is, not some BS snivelfest.

de727ups

Well, it sounds like the open time issue is seen by some as the classic "old senior guys vs new hire junior guys" argument with the complaint that the IPA is run by "old senior guys". Too bad we have to split up the pilot group up like that.

Again, I had no problem with open time pickup when I was a 2rd year F/E, and I don't see any reason to have a problem with it now, as it was in the contract then and it still is. High caps haven't changed, either.

I've read everything so far, and I'm not convinced that I should support not picking up open time so someone in the pool can get hired sooner or so that someone junior can move up faster. Didn't make sense to me in 92 and it doesn't make sense now.

Seems like we should be expending our time and efforts to get the company to stick to the contract, not going after each other for things that are within it...