UPS Realignment Bid Results are out
03-13-2008, 03:52 PM
#61
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Although it wouldn't surprise me if ups did so, it makes no sense to displace someone back to the panel (dc8) for just a short time knowing they will be trained again for the right seat. Ups could carry the extra crewmembers for now in the fo seat and do without the extra training event (or two) for the affected crewmembers. But, we're talking ups crewplanning, so all bets are off and anything is possible...
JMO
Pilot7576
Although it wouldn't surprise me if ups did so, it makes no sense to displace someone back to the panel (dc8) for just a short time knowing they will be trained again for the right seat. Ups could carry the extra crewmembers for now in the fo seat and do without the extra training event (or two) for the affected crewmembers. But, we're talking ups crewplanning, so all bets are off and anything is possible...
JMO
Pilot7576
03-13-2008, 04:06 PM
#62
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
That is about what I figured. It would be nice to see blank vacancies to know for sure. But I see how the displacement trickle effect SHOULD eventually lead to the panel. I also understand how/why the FEs could cry foul. Since I doubt that ANC was the first choice for ALL of them.
ALTHOUGH could the company claim that they can assign a probationary crewmember wherever they desire without a vacancy ?
Is a March hire date "senior" for 07 ? If it is, my displacement choice is to the panel before ANC ... FWIW. But the rest of the class of 2007 have little if any control of their displacement while still on probation.
Later, Brown CC
ALTHOUGH could the company claim that they can assign a probationary crewmember wherever they desire without a vacancy ?
Is a March hire date "senior" for 07 ? If it is, my displacement choice is to the panel before ANC ... FWIW. But the rest of the class of 2007 have little if any control of their displacement while still on probation.
Later, Brown CC
I think March will be fine if you want to keep slinging gear in ANC. If your in the bottom one hundred, life is going to be painful for the next year until the dust settels down.
Roberto> I am not sure what your point is when you keep saying no new hire will be displaced by a old timer. That is a false statement, indirectly maybe not, but the old timers are the root cause of this dilema no matter how you slice it. Looking at the numbers based off the current data, If everything else remains constant it will take a 07 hire until 2020 to hold Captian in ANC and probably 2023 for them to hold Capt in the lower 48.
This is the way it is and no one can change it but the fact remains that the new guys are ultimately going to be the ones that bare the brunt of this. The next contract will have to fix the F/O over ten pay scale if nothing else changes. If most of us will have to sit as an F/O for 13-19 years then the top F/O pay should reflect the change. Instead of being paid 68% of the Capt's pay, they should get paid 80%. I think this will be an issue that will need to be addressed and with the F/O's being 60-65% of the crew force I think it will be in 2012.
03-13-2008, 04:10 PM
#63
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: On Food Stamps
Posts: 937
CC...
Although it wouldn't surprise me if ups did so, it makes no sense to displace someone back to the panel (dc8) for just a short time knowing they will be trained again for the right seat. Ups could carry the extra crewmembers for now in the fo seat and do without the extra training event (or two) for the affected crewmembers. But, we're talking ups crewplanning, so all bets are off and anything is possible...
JMO
Pilot7576
Although it wouldn't surprise me if ups did so, it makes no sense to displace someone back to the panel (dc8) for just a short time knowing they will be trained again for the right seat. Ups could carry the extra crewmembers for now in the fo seat and do without the extra training event (or two) for the affected crewmembers. But, we're talking ups crewplanning, so all bets are off and anything is possible...
JMO
Pilot7576
03-13-2008, 04:34 PM
#64
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Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Kickin it "C"old School in AK
Posts: 283
The contract looks like it reads that the Company can move anybody on probation anywhere they want at any time, so far as I can figure.
Does this figure in to UPS planning?
03-13-2008, 04:38 PM
#65
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
That goes with the territory in a seniority based system. At my 8-year point, I received a CPT award and was subsequently displaced (before training) and waited 2 more years for the first available CPT at 10-year's longevity. I've been here 17 years (almost) and have seen many of these displacement goat ropes. There will be more for years to come.
03-13-2008, 04:40 PM
#66
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Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
03-13-2008, 04:57 PM
#67
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: MD11 FO
Posts: 171
03-13-2008, 08:50 PM
#68
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Brown 747-400
Posts: 524
The next contract will have to fix the F/O over ten pay scale if nothing else changes. If most of us will have to sit as an F/O for 13-19 years then the top F/O pay should reflect the change. Instead of being paid 68% of the Capt's pay, they should get paid 80%. I think this will be an issue that will need to be addressed and with the F/O's being 60-65% of the crew force I think it will be in 2012.
I nominate Shaggy for the contract negotiating team!
03-14-2008, 04:53 AM
#69
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
Sorry, couldn't help myself. Ok, back to digging up that cookie recipe for Roberto.
03-14-2008, 04:56 AM
#70
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
If most of us will have to sit as an F/O for 13-19 years then the top F/O pay should reflect the change. Instead of being paid 68% of the Capt's pay, they should get paid 80%. I think this will be an issue that will need to be addressed and with the F/O's being 60-65% of the crew force I think it will be in 2012.
I agree completely. I have written this on other threads before but I don't know if you saw this. I had a capt. tell me (right after negotiations) that I shouldn't worry about FO pay here because I will be a capt. longer. I'd love to run into him now....LOL!
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