Roberto

On the Reference Seniority List after 08-101, there are 22, 23, and 20 Classic CPT, FO, FE positions remaining, respectively. This sounds like about the number they will keep until the last 3 planes are retired after Christmas. They may have a bid to displace them such that the training for their new positions starts right after Christmas, I suppose. Only about 5 of those FE's will be young enough to upgrade.

IPAMD11FO

The company published a revision to the bid awards. The only significant change is that the MD-11 Capt did not realign himself. Add one more to the list of those to be displaced.

Roberto

Some possibilities:

If UPS is going to keep the 20 remaining Classic crews until after Christmas, the latest they can post a Realignment Vacancy Bid, followed by a Displacement Bid, followed by a Training Bid, and then give minimum notice for a training class..... is about 6 weeks earlier, or early November. (14 day minimum for each bid posting to award, 3 days minimum for training bid, and 7 days minimum notice for training class start date.)

If UPS is going to continue 747-400 training without interruption after the last class start date from 08-101 (last start estimated in early July), the latest they can post a Vacancy Bid (without the Classic Realignment and Displacement, which can be saved for November) is about 4 weeks earlier, or early June. However, more 747-400 training additions after the Displacement Bid closes will push the last class start date further to the right, at the rate of 4 students per week. This agrees with what UPS has mentioned as an estimate for the next bid posting.

CactusCrew

For anyone that knows ...

There are approx 40 Captains to be displaced in 2 weeks. I completely understand that they will bid and be placed where their seniority can take them.

Here's what confuses me ... the reference seniority list published after the realignment bid shows no vacancies anywhere for Capts, FOs or FEs.

I've been through these things at other airlines enough that I thought I understood the system. If we have 40 excess Capts, we must be short in 40 other seats somewhere else. But WHERE are they ?

I don't expect to know where those subject to displacement plan to exercise their seniority. But it should be apparent to the crew force where UPS intends to place the most junior excess bodies eventually. It is not at this time, because no positions show vacant.

WHAT AM I MISSING ?



Or is this just another one of those ... "that's the way they do it here" ... kind of things ?

UPSFO4LIFE

I think it will all depend on how many of the over 60 folk actually take the ANC vacancies. Like many have said before, who knows where the dust will settle here in a couple of weeks. You may see the bottom 40 end up on the panel. Your guess is as good as any. UPS probably doesn't know where they will go.

CactusCrew

I understand all of that. The Realignment portion is complete. All of the ANC vacancies were filled by over 60 FEs. Even the FO seats. In ANC the top 31 FOs were all hired prior to 9/91 and born prior to 1947. Without even looking at names or previous position, it is apparent that they were over 60 FEs.

The point of my question is now that the revised realignment portion is published, where are the approx 40 most junior going to end up during the displacement portion ?

It appears that it is up to UPS to determine as the bid closes since there are no vacant positions anywhere in the system.

Roberto

In the next bid, if there are 20 ANC CPT and 30 ANC FO original vacancies, it will create 15+ recurring ANC FO vacancies as the new over-60 ANC FO's move up to CPT. That would create a need for about a total of 45 ANC FO's.

There are only 7 over-60 FE's who had an ANC FO bid in that didn't get an ANC FO award this time. That would seem to create a need for a lot of these current junior FO's to go right back to ANC if they are sent to FE this time.

Hopefully, UPS has this all figured out <g>.

Shaggy1970

Although the vacancy bid results don't reflect it, I would say the empty postions are those that were created which the F/E's left behind on the -8. The trickle effect will eventually move the more senior of the 07 new hires to ANC and the most junior of the 07 hires to the panel of the -8. The big question is how many training events will this generate. The right choice would be to carry extra positions but that's not going to happen because the old timers will cry foul and say that they should have been able to bid that positions. I have put together my own data off the senoirty list and it doesn't look good for the next three years unless the company comes out tomorrow and announces the purchase of a new airframe.

Roberto

Your statement doesn't agree with the facts. Only 7 over-60 guys with an ANC FO bid did not receive an ANC FO award or better. If UPS wanted to carry extra positions, they could award those 7 an ANC FO and carry some of those there now rather than send them to FE until the next bid award.

I suppose it is possible some more of those remaining 7 who didn't receive an award could still receive one, as the IPNN stated that a number of the awardees needed to confirm with UPS that they will be accepting the training.

CactusCrew

That is about what I figured. It would be nice to see blank vacancies to know for sure. But I see how the displacement trickle effect SHOULD eventually lead to the panel. I also understand how/why the FEs could cry foul. Since I doubt that ANC was the first choice for ALL of them.

ALTHOUGH could the company claim that they can assign a probationary crewmember wherever they desire without a vacancy ?

Is a March hire date "senior" for 07 ? If it is, my displacement choice is to the panel before ANC ... FWIW. But the rest of the class of 2007 have little if any control of their displacement while still on probation.

Later, Brown CC