Hub Turn Meeting
01-30-2008, 02:00 PM
#21
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 618
Thanks for the info Jax; about what I expected I guess.
01-30-2008, 02:03 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 482
I thought the RLA kept us from going on strike with the NMB and the 30 day cooling off period and such. If they got rid of the RLA wouldn't we be like all other workers and be able to strike at will?
I do know McCain was for binding arbitration for airline pilots.
I do know McCain was for binding arbitration for airline pilots.
01-30-2008, 02:25 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Communication
At some point the complaining on here needs to become something more than just complaining out loud. This is not a slam on those that reported on what happened at the meeting....it is more directed to those that weren't there.
Regarding the webcast, etc....while it has merit and should be used for official presentations, I think hubturn meetings should allow a certain level of "Academic Freedom"....you can get a frank discussion, you can get a public discussion.....you can want both...you're not going to get it.
Talk one on one to a guy that went, or go yourself...
The MEC has said they get the message that communication is a problem, and with the increase in communication from them to the membership, it is evident they are trying to work on it.
It will only work if there is a reciprocal courtesy from the membership. When the floor was opened up for questions, initially, there was silence from the crowd. It was silly, like a high school assembly with guest speakers or something.
The MEC guys actually had to seed questions and discuss things until people got the courage to speak up.
When the professional negotiator question was asked, it got heated up, because the MEC had the impression that we knew what ALPA lawyers we had and how the system worked and figured that we just didn't think it was good enough. They didn't understand that most just don't know what the mechanism is.
That was the first I've heard of it....maybe it's because I shut the "Worlds most expensive magazine" when the articles went from the "mailbag" to regulatory issues and the "glossy pictures" went from airplane cockpits to guys in cheezy mustaches
The answer to "Why don't we have professional negotiators?" actually is "We do.....here is how it works....." and to be honest, there was more than one person in the crowd that went "oh"
The Brinksmanship, name calling (didn't I call DM the 'Crown Prince?') and "Ruth Chris accusation" making at some time has to be recognized as either venting or immaturity. Venting is fine in my opinion, immaturity when dealing with reasonable men and women will get you marginalized.
If, however, your goal is to effect some sort of change, then sounding off on this message board and expecting it to resonate into some sort of policy change is disingenuous.
Communication has to be given, and received.
The pilot that says "DW doesn't have my trust and I won't listen to a thing he says from here on out".....to quote JL "is part of the problem" because now he/she is not listening.
The pilot that deletes an email without reading it, not seeing voting instructions and hub turn announcements and complains about a comm problem is "part of the problem"
The pilot that flys DP's because they don't look at the SIG communications is "part of the problem"
The pilot that voices general discontent on here stirring foment without trying to get it resolved...is "part of the problem"....if you had a problem with the contract enforcement guy, did you email your block rep?
The guy that doesn't know how to log onto the ALPA website to look up who his block rep is....is "part of the problem"
The guy that has an ongoing issue with the union and doesn't know who his block rep is ....is "part of the problem"
The guy that logs onto APC first, before looking for an answer in the contract....is "part of the problem"
The guy that asks an MEC member for their "personal opinion" about stuff off the record, and then blabs it on a public forum....is "part of the problem"
For all the dissatisfaction on here, why is it the same folks time after time having the same discussions in public at these meetings for the benefit of those listening around them. It's almost like a pre-scripted episode of "Hannity and Colmes", with each side taking a part.
Before you throw hate and discontent my way about how "only the Memphis guys can make it to the meetings"....and "we never get any notice about them"....honestly ask yourself if you even saw the announcement in a message line days before....I did, and I forgot about it to be truthful.
Honestly ask yourself if you know who your block rep is....what council or LEC you are in....and if you've emailed them about your concerns. Ask yourself if you've ever looked at the ALPA by-laws, and surfed for more information on the ALPA Website.
In the past month there has been four opportunities to engage your union leadership one on one. Did you ever seriously consider going? Yes, it is in Memphis, but until we get a domicile in Ft Walton Beach, it is what it is.
If you went, were you a sheep, hoping someone else would ask a question and draw fire, or did you engage?
Seriously, if you want to vent, by all means do so, I appreciate wit and sarcasm.
Flame on....but I'll say, if you don't start with, "I know who my block rep is...I've emailed him with my concern, and I have no intention of taking his response out of context and publishing it on here for the purpose of undermining him"...then like the many message lines among this group, I'll delete without reading it.
If after getting mad at me for writing this, you really do want to know who your block rep is, and how to sign on to the ALPA site, PM me....I'll be happy to help.
My goal is to help us get our act together before the next dog and pony show starts.
Jakal
Regarding the webcast, etc....while it has merit and should be used for official presentations, I think hubturn meetings should allow a certain level of "Academic Freedom"....you can get a frank discussion, you can get a public discussion.....you can want both...you're not going to get it.
Talk one on one to a guy that went, or go yourself...
The MEC has said they get the message that communication is a problem, and with the increase in communication from them to the membership, it is evident they are trying to work on it.
It will only work if there is a reciprocal courtesy from the membership. When the floor was opened up for questions, initially, there was silence from the crowd. It was silly, like a high school assembly with guest speakers or something.
The MEC guys actually had to seed questions and discuss things until people got the courage to speak up.
When the professional negotiator question was asked, it got heated up, because the MEC had the impression that we knew what ALPA lawyers we had and how the system worked and figured that we just didn't think it was good enough. They didn't understand that most just don't know what the mechanism is.
That was the first I've heard of it....maybe it's because I shut the "Worlds most expensive magazine" when the articles went from the "mailbag" to regulatory issues and the "glossy pictures" went from airplane cockpits to guys in cheezy mustaches
The answer to "Why don't we have professional negotiators?" actually is "We do.....here is how it works....." and to be honest, there was more than one person in the crowd that went "oh"
The Brinksmanship, name calling (didn't I call DM the 'Crown Prince?') and "Ruth Chris accusation" making at some time has to be recognized as either venting or immaturity. Venting is fine in my opinion, immaturity when dealing with reasonable men and women will get you marginalized.
If, however, your goal is to effect some sort of change, then sounding off on this message board and expecting it to resonate into some sort of policy change is disingenuous.
Communication has to be given, and received.
The pilot that says "DW doesn't have my trust and I won't listen to a thing he says from here on out".....to quote JL "is part of the problem" because now he/she is not listening.
The pilot that deletes an email without reading it, not seeing voting instructions and hub turn announcements and complains about a comm problem is "part of the problem"
The pilot that flys DP's because they don't look at the SIG communications is "part of the problem"
The pilot that voices general discontent on here stirring foment without trying to get it resolved...is "part of the problem"....if you had a problem with the contract enforcement guy, did you email your block rep?
The guy that doesn't know how to log onto the ALPA website to look up who his block rep is....is "part of the problem"
The guy that has an ongoing issue with the union and doesn't know who his block rep is ....is "part of the problem"
The guy that logs onto APC first, before looking for an answer in the contract....is "part of the problem"
The guy that asks an MEC member for their "personal opinion" about stuff off the record, and then blabs it on a public forum....is "part of the problem"
For all the dissatisfaction on here, why is it the same folks time after time having the same discussions in public at these meetings for the benefit of those listening around them. It's almost like a pre-scripted episode of "Hannity and Colmes", with each side taking a part.
Before you throw hate and discontent my way about how "only the Memphis guys can make it to the meetings"....and "we never get any notice about them"....honestly ask yourself if you even saw the announcement in a message line days before....I did, and I forgot about it to be truthful.
Honestly ask yourself if you know who your block rep is....what council or LEC you are in....and if you've emailed them about your concerns. Ask yourself if you've ever looked at the ALPA by-laws, and surfed for more information on the ALPA Website.
In the past month there has been four opportunities to engage your union leadership one on one. Did you ever seriously consider going? Yes, it is in Memphis, but until we get a domicile in Ft Walton Beach, it is what it is.
If you went, were you a sheep, hoping someone else would ask a question and draw fire, or did you engage?
Seriously, if you want to vent, by all means do so, I appreciate wit and sarcasm.
Flame on....but I'll say, if you don't start with, "I know who my block rep is...I've emailed him with my concern, and I have no intention of taking his response out of context and publishing it on here for the purpose of undermining him"...then like the many message lines among this group, I'll delete without reading it.
If after getting mad at me for writing this, you really do want to know who your block rep is, and how to sign on to the ALPA site, PM me....I'll be happy to help.
My goal is to help us get our act together before the next dog and pony show starts.
Jakal
Last edited by Laughing_Jakal; 01-30-2008 at 02:34 PM.
01-30-2008, 02:32 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,338
Perhaps it would be easier if the MEC leadership could have a town hall meeting at a different person's house house every day of the week...in about 12-13 years, we could have every one covered.
Seriously, you should email your block rep and suggest that. At the Joint Memphis Council meeting, LEC 26, two weeks ago discussed increased "hub turn meetings like we used to have".....and we had one. I know the block 6 rep is responsive.....if you're in block 6, you should ask him to come to Indy.
01-30-2008, 02:43 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 98
How about a board like this on the secure union web site. Four rules:
Use your real name.
Monitors independent of the Union leadership.
No personal attacks.
No illegal activity (no direct promotion illegal job actions)
It worked for NJA.
Use your real name.
Monitors independent of the Union leadership.
No personal attacks.
No illegal activity (no direct promotion illegal job actions)
It worked for NJA.
01-30-2008, 03:03 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Jackal,
"I know who my block rep is...I've emailed him with my concern, and I have no intention of taking his response out of context and publishing it on here for the purpose of undermining him."
Do I have to start every post with that?
Otherwise...good post.
"I know who my block rep is...I've emailed him with my concern, and I have no intention of taking his response out of context and publishing it on here for the purpose of undermining him."
Do I have to start every post with that?
Otherwise...good post.
01-30-2008, 03:05 PM
#30
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
I showed up very late, during DW's expletive filled diatribe. It does sound like we have the best professional negotiators possible. He emphatically explained that it doesn't matter who we have at the table if we keep having guys fly DP's, sell back vacation, fly overtime etc during contract negotiations. It wasn't until the Subic goes and W/B F/O's starting holding the line that the company started getting worried about the contract.
Someone asked if we (FDX ALPA) should endorse a candidate for Pres this year, given the animosity withing the union right now. DW explained that he understands 75% of us consider ourselves republicans or conservatives. But the union as an entity must support someone who goes along with labor beliefs. Very few people are one issue voters. But the union leadership (representing the union as a group) must throw it's support towards labor friendly candidates. If they didn't, and someone was voted in that would dismantle the RLA and our rights to negotiate, people would later complain why didn't the leadership do something before the election.
Someone asked if we (FDX ALPA) should endorse a candidate for Pres this year, given the animosity withing the union right now. DW explained that he understands 75% of us consider ourselves republicans or conservatives. But the union as an entity must support someone who goes along with labor beliefs. Very few people are one issue voters. But the union leadership (representing the union as a group) must throw it's support towards labor friendly candidates. If they didn't, and someone was voted in that would dismantle the RLA and our rights to negotiate, people would later complain why didn't the leadership do something before the election.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
