Short Notice Hub Turn Meeting : Info??
01-09-2008, 05:57 PM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Row well and live...
Posts: 494
So, would DW simply rubber stamp anything the company proposes or do you think he'd actually fight for us? The guy seems to have a **** on about preserving HIS relationship with the company for some reason. I'm thinking if the company came to him with a proposal, he'd simply green light it, because "it's the right thing to do...."
"Rubber Stamp Dave". Nice ring to it.
Frankly, I think Forrest Gump could beat him in an election at this point. He couldn't be less effective--at least for us non-national types--if he was tied to a stake in the backyard with a pork chop in his mouth. Pitiful.
01-09-2008, 06:17 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
If they try this, and if our MEC doesn't grieve/sue them based on the past history of FedEx NEVER laying off an employee, I will be beyond PI$$ED.
As I see it, the timeline MUST follow these steps:
1. COMPANY DECIDES IT NEEDS TO FURLOUGH
2. COMPANY COMES TO UNION AND SAYS "BLG's ARE GOING DOWN"
3. COMPANY GIVES THE REASON AS "WE NEED TO FURLOUGH"
4. UNION CAN'T SAY SQUAT, because it says "SHALL" be lowered and it's ALL up to the company.
So, my friends, there will be no vote, no appeal, no nothing. All the company has to do is overman the airline either synthetically or actually due to 65, and presto, they now can control the cost of the CBA by lowering BLG's.
.
FedEx has furloughed. TWICE. In the '70s.
Your MUST follow steps are not.
What you describe is a chain of events that happens if nothing else than what is spelled out in the CBA occurs. Not likely IMHO.
You will more likely see dialogue. The company will seek it out and I personally think PC's FCIF was the first step in that dialogue. What you see in the CBA are restrictions to prevent the company from furloughing for small miscalculations of growth/economic conditions. It makes it painful for the company to furlough unless conditions are really bad. They aren't bad now but we'll see later this year if they will get that way.
The CBA furlough language does not prohibit our union from negotiating and possibly sending to the membership for a vote a special "slow economy" LOA.
01-09-2008, 07:13 PM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 121
The phrase says shall and minimum. They can lower BLG by one hour or all of the way to the minimum. I also don't see where DW has to approve anything, the union has already approved the lowering of BLG to prevent furlough by ratifying the CBA. It doesn't specify what steps the compnay must take prior to the reduction other than say "we were going to furlough, but now we are reducing BLG to prevent that."
The company would have to have a well documented plan for a furlough demonstrating how they would save money and still accomplish FDA flying. This would be through CDG 757/HKG 300 SIBA for pairings unable to be assigned to the FDAs.
If they can demonstrate that a furlough would save $$$ then they can do it. I am sure they will present the full plan with all the $$ figures to the union prior to implementing the BLG reduction.
Just MHO
01-09-2008, 07:39 PM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 331
It was also interesting to hear a senior Flying Tiger pilot say the company should furlough the junior pilots to protect his income. He was upset with the BLG being at 85 hours/5 week bid month when at this time last year he was getting 92 hours. This same pilot paid his dues at FT with a couple of furloughs.[/quote]
Ahhh, brotherhood at its finest. Where does this attitude come from? It happened to me....blah...blah...blah. I am a furlough victim as well, but would never wish it on anyone. It really seems as if ALPA (collectively) is, and will continue to, eat its young in search of the almighty dollar. Hopefully this guy is a dinosaur and a one-of-a-kind deal instead of what the average crew dog is thinking
!
Ahhh, brotherhood at its finest. Where does this attitude come from? It happened to me....blah...blah...blah. I am a furlough victim as well, but would never wish it on anyone. It really seems as if ALPA (collectively) is, and will continue to, eat its young in search of the almighty dollar. Hopefully this guy is a dinosaur and a one-of-a-kind deal instead of what the average crew dog is thinking
!
01-09-2008, 08:07 PM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: MD-11/10 Captain
Posts: 533
That's really, really stupid.
01-10-2008, 01:11 AM
#56
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
It was also interesting to hear a senior Flying Tiger pilot say the company should furlough the junior pilots to protect his income. He was upset with the BLG being at 85 hours/5 week bid month when at this time last year he was getting 92 hours. This same pilot paid his dues at FT with a couple of furloughs.
)
01-10-2008, 08:22 AM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
Well, I don't think there is any chance the FDAs will be filled, so the company will have to hire to fill the slots. So, if they furlough the FDAs don't open. They will open, we don't cost that much. Save your pay and some jobs DON'T BID the FDAs.
The sky isn't falling. We are just being bamboozled by the company and the union leadership is falling for it. This is the same line of crap that all the majors used to wipe out retirements and contracts. FedEx is a money making machine.... F the union and company scare tatics!
The sky isn't falling. We are just being bamboozled by the company and the union leadership is falling for it. This is the same line of crap that all the majors used to wipe out retirements and contracts. FedEx is a money making machine.... F the union and company scare tatics!
01-10-2008, 08:27 AM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Someone enlighten me.
I have been told it is, indeed, possible to furlough out of seniority and is up to the MEC. Is this true?
Before you say no, many thought ALPA merger policy ALWAYS went DOH. Try telling that to a USAirways guy now and he will laugh (or b#@ch slap) you out of the room.
I have been told it is, indeed, possible to furlough out of seniority and is up to the MEC. Is this true?
Before you say no, many thought ALPA merger policy ALWAYS went DOH. Try telling that to a USAirways guy now and he will laugh (or b#@ch slap) you out of the room.
01-10-2008, 08:31 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
"It was also interesting to hear a senior Flying Tiger pilot say the company should furlough the junior pilots to protect his income. He was upset with the BLG being at 85 hours/5 week bid month when at this time last year he was getting 92 hours. This same pilot paid his dues at FT with a couple of furloughs."
Ahhh, brotherhood at its finest. Where does this attitude come from? It happened to me....blah...blah...blah. I am a furlough victim as well, but would never wish it on anyone. It really seems as if ALPA (collectively) is, and will continue to, eat its young in search of the almighty dollar. Hopefully this guy is a dinosaur and a one-of-a-kind deal instead of what the average crew dog is thinking!
Ahhh, brotherhood at its finest. Where does this attitude come from? It happened to me....blah...blah...blah. I am a furlough victim as well, but would never wish it on anyone. It really seems as if ALPA (collectively) is, and will continue to, eat its young in search of the almighty dollar. Hopefully this guy is a dinosaur and a one-of-a-kind deal instead of what the average crew dog is thinking
!
01-10-2008, 09:19 AM
#60
Avoiding Memphis
Joined APC: Apr 2005
Position: Intl Feeder Jet
Posts: 504
If the Company determines it is necessary to reduce the number of active pilots, the Company shall furlough pilots in reverse order of system seniority as listed on the Master Seniority List.
Notice the word "shall". Doesn't seem like any wiggle room there.
There is this a couple of paragraphs later:
Prior to the issuance of furlough notices, the Company may offer voluntary furloughs. The Company may limit the offer to 1 or more designated crew statuses. Voluntary furloughs shall be granted in order of system seniority. The Company shall make best efforts to provide pilots at least 30 calendar days notice of the offer of voluntary furloughs, with a copy to the Association.
So they can offer voluntary furloughs to overmanned seats. All I see is that they provide the union with a copy of notice - no requirement for consultation with the MEC.
I'm no contract expert, but to me it looks like to truly furlough out of seniority (not a voluntary furlough) would take some amendment to the CBA. I want to say that it would never get approved by the membership, but then you see senior guys wanting to throw a junior guy out on the street to protect his extra 7 hours of pay and I wonder what exactly would pass.
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