Toccata

Overall good post. I'll drift from it here - sorry.

The intent is that we hire aviators who plan to, and are capable of, becoming Captains. However, we're one of the gentlest and most lenient Airlines around regarding allowing someone to do what they want, once hired.

Occasionally, we screw up in the hiring. The fact that we don't require an upgrade at some point (even if not permanent) tends to mask those mistakes.

You can agree or disagree with why we do not require upgrade, but the bottom line is it ultimately can, and has, cost us. Fortunately thus far the cost has only been $$$$, both in insurance, and in litigation costs.

And, I am knocking on wood right at this moment.

Sorry - tune back to seniority now. And, for JJ's sake, if you happen to decide to post a negative reply, ensure it shows the correct poster. He's taking enough hits for simply being born.

I mean - born when he was born.....

MD11HOG

Some guys, for whatever reason, place their family above ego and are able to figure out what is truly important in life before being on their death bed. Some guys, for whatever reason, can't even figure it out then. They have a condescending and superior attitude that makes family and friends not enjoy being around them. "And that is indisputable because it's my opinion." So he!! yea they want to fly the left seat till they are dead becaused they are "owed respect" there.
If you want to attack me, I bid the left seat at 80%. If that's not good enough for you or Jack L, I think "you should quit here "and go be on medical leave at some other airline.

subicpilot

Hey, if the company doesn't like camping, they'll fix it! Until then, whatever seat your in is your own business.

MEMFO4Ever

Agreed. As long as when I show up I do the work I'm assigned competently, why does anyone care whether I upgrade or not. There is not enough incentive for me to upgrade. That incentive comes in a lot of ways, but money is not overriding. To give up schedule and vacation freedom for a small economic payoff is just not enough to offset enduring more years of difficult schedules and October vacations. The way I look at it is this; as long as I make enough money to cover my family's needs there is no motivation to upgrade. Maybe I'm not like the rest of the Madison Avenue lifestyle pilots we have around here, but then again I have never considered this to be more than a job. Live within your means and be nominal. It is not difficult.

I would be curious to find out how many other large airlines require an upgrade and what underlying philosophy motivates it.

fecav8r

At one point while I was in "the office" I thought we should have an up or out policy here at FedEx like they have at other airlines. You do have a small group of folks who think they are Senior to the Captain if their overall seniority number is lower. But then I realized that if we did I wouldn't be near as senior in the left seat. The top 178 FO's on the Bus could be Captains, the top 38 being senior to me. "Camp on" I say........

hyperone

JJ, it's not that guys don't aspire to be in the left seat, it's the vast difference in the quality of life between junior Capt lines, and senior FO lines here at Fedex, that keeps many guys from upgrading at 100%.

One or two leg daytime, domestic pairings on the MD when a senior FO. Or, a week of 3 to 4 leg night hub-turn pairings with closed tower ops, when your a junior Capt on the Boeing. Year after year of night hub-turns tears guys up. Just look at the guys during the night hub-turn late in the week. It's amazing how beat up many of the guys look - they look like death warmed over.

So, it's not the training dates, vacation bids, etc. that drives so many here to stay senior before upgrading, it's the difference in the quality of life between the senior FO lines, and the junior Capt lines. To some, the extra money's not worth feeling like crap for three days after a week of night hub turns, in addition to all the long-term health effects.

Jetjok

With you, it doesn't matter what or how I say say something here, because you are too busy trying to tell me what SHOULD BE important to me in my life, to actually read my posts and understand that I'm trying to give a viewpoint. I certainly don't TRY to come across in a condescending or superior attitude. Maybe just an attitude of someone whose been around a little longer than you: at this airline: this business: as well as this life. Try to get this: it's not your job to TELL me what's important in my life. Nor is it anyone else's for that matter. It is ok for you to critique my choices, but I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your thoughts on my life to yourself. Why not just read the post and try not to put your own spin on it.

Jetjok

I don't disagree with anything you've said. However, we got onto this issue, in this thread, because guys had brought up the issue of a senior first officer flying with a junior captain, when one of them was over 60. Some felt that the (overall) senior first officer should have gotten the line, and the junior captain should have been removed. That was what started this. My point was that if everyone moved up when they could, this would be so much less of an issue. Apparently this thread has bloomed into something else. What a surprise.

hyperone

I agree with you on who has priority. It's the the Captain's line first. I don't care if the FO has the number one seniority number in the company, he's still not senior to the Captain in the cockpit.

fedupbusdriver

It doesn't matter what the reason is that the more senior F/O chooses not to exercise his or her seniority and stay in the junior seat. By doing this, once they step into the cockpit, they are the junior crewmember on that flight.

It is the same situation, if a more senior Capt bids an RFO line, once they step into the cockpit, they are the RFO, not the Capt. If they want to be the Capt, bid the Capt line.