Toccata

Well said. But not popular. Can't take away that privilege to jumpseat in from the west coast for the am launch to Paris, and be falling asleep before the gear is raised.

I've seen that more then I really would have liked.

Toccata

Of course, the other option is to require you to live at your domicile. That pretty much takes care of the safety argument. And, saves the cost of replacing those who deviate front-end and miss their check-in.


Uh-oh. Here we go again. Thinking that individuals in the pilot group will make personal sacrifice. Taking all the scheduled deadheads has only been suggested.... maybe about a dozen times over the recent history...... to 'show 'em what we're saving the company'. Just never actually happened.

The age-old argument - is being able to live where you desire a right, or a privilege? If it's our right, we definitely need sleep rooms for everyone. If it's a privilege, well, more sleep rooms still would be nice.

Toccata

Good point. Let's level 'em, and bring the gym back!

After all.... five more years of passing the physical....

boost

Well I think we got a little off topic...you guys would have made great lawyers though!

My original point was that there were un-utilized sleep rooms on this one particular holiday night and a whole bunch of pilots were denied rooms for no logical reason other than to spread a lot of humbug. It just stinks getting burned by a policy made for normal nights and people enforcing it blindly. That's it.

Guess the resolution would be a different rule for nights preceding holidays or with very few outbounds. It would be nice to utilize the facility since it is there and the sleep rooms aren't helping anybody empty.

That said, I think we all agree that we could use a few more, I haven't made it in time to get one on a hub turn in at least a year.

boxhauler

The abuse of sleep rooms in rampant. Many times i've had a guy im flying with come out of a sleep room on our first leg, or tell me after we flew in on our last leg that he's going to go catch a sleep room before he jump seats out. yeah, i say "thats not right", but my disapproval carries little weight. I'm not sure how much crosscheck anybody does of the sign in log vs really being eligible for one..........on the other hand i really appreciate the new recliner room chairs. I can actually fall asleep in a chair that gets horizontal! If only they'll hold up over time.

onetime

OK, jumpseating inbound time is not considered duty time. However, both we and the company agree via the CBA that jumpseating into a trip is both pay (goes to your m/u bank) and disciplinary (no irregularity report) protected as long as we follow the contract (ie 1330). But no sleep room? Inconsistent.

Sleep rooms are there for crews to get ready for their next flight from the hub, not recover from the flight into the hub. That accident report would not read well if something happened on the outbound after the legal, jumpseating inbound crew was denied a place to get some rest. Now operating in and jumpseating out is a different animal. Go get a recliner or fall asleep in the TV room as you are not preparing for any revenue operation. All that said, the other night is a special case in which common sense should have applied. .02c

MD11Fr8Dog

Might actually make our lives, on average, more unsafe, if we all lived in Memphis!

FDXLAG

Not without negotiating a down payment or 5% mortgage for the pilots who at date of signing attained the age of 53 and have 7 years of service.

BrownGirls YUM

If the company really gave a rip about fatigue, they would ensure enough sleep rooms were available. That they just built a new hub with only 16 rooms in CAN tells us exactly how deep their real concern is for fatigue.

They can always hide behind their fatigue policy and say "anyone who is fatigued is encouraged to remove themselves from their trip".

If people who were not getting sleep rooms would do the right thing, call in fatigued and then report the reason, perhaps the situation would change.

Perhaps our union leaders might get involved and help with this situation when they have a chance to divert their attention away from those ever-pressing "National issues".

This company lines its pockets with money earned mostly by virtue of the fact that we fly all night. Considering the facts out there regarding fatigue, they should feel compelled to put a little back into the system to help mitigate the effects of fatigue.

New hub and 16 rooms.....are you kidding me???

Jetjok

If I could negotiate a 0% down, along with a .005% interest rate, over 300 years, I'd still not own property or live in Memphis. Besides, from what I've seen, guys jumpseating into Memphis for the AM outbound (if they're not jumping in on a Boeing), are usually more rested than guys who show in the AOC at show time. The guys showing up have usually been doing stuff all day, either for themselves or for their significant other, while the jumpseaters have been copping some Z's on the flight in. Regardless, it would be nice to have enough sleep rooms for everyone who wants one, but I can understand the companys reluctance to provide them. I do sometimes wonder what an accident like the one in Tallahassee cost the company, and if the money could have been better spent.