MAWK90

So you are telling me you think that excessed bottom 20% as it is guys will be able to hold the 777 when it shows up? Wishful thinking. That jet will go very senior.

If you are referring to the over 60 crowd that is about to move up to MD and BUS captain, they will be over 63 by the time the 777 shows up and my money says the company won't train 'em, especially when you and I BOTH know the 777 will be the SAME PAYRATE as what they are already on.

FDXLAG

That is why I said move the bid month start day to sunday, that would eliminate a lot of carry over. Then you could eliminate C-I-C priority make up. Give the guy a choice of what to drop new trip or old trip but make him fight the VIPS busy to fly extra.

purplepilot

Guys, ALPA sucks- plain and simple. They will not look after the junior guy. I've been down the "F" road before and ALPA did nothing to help then or during the seniority "integration" at TWA/AA. How many times have they screwed the pilot here just this year. Let's see- Age 60, LOA, to mention a couple. Now, why would they cancel part of a bid and re-issue it? Obviously they needed the 150+ secondary vacancies they awarded on the last bid. Did that need suddenly go away? Don't think so. So now, these 150+ F/O's get hosed while they re-issue the bid to let the over 60 crowd bid back. Why would they do this? Stay tuned. Next week should be interesting.

P.S.- I'm not usually pessimistic. Just ****ed right now at the absurdity of what's going on. Been furloughed before and still a little gun-shy. Let's pray that a miracle happens and ALPO get's their head out of their butt, and does something to benefit this entire crew force.

Gunter

Mawk,

Let me explain my viewpoint.

I think the DC10 excess will overman the seats those guys go to. It will be a mix. The CAs will be CA on other aircraft. FOs and SOs will be CAs and FOs on other aircraft. Many will be on wide aircraft and some will choose 757.

I'm not talking about the over 60 crowd other than to say they will show up on FO and CA lists on aircraft and add to the excess. All this points to no movement for middle and bottom 727 folks. The widebody and 757 CA seats will all be full. With the FO seats overfilled. Only the top of the 727 list will have opportunities.

It doesn't matter who goes to the 777 for the junior guy and gal on the 727 trying to take advantage of secondaries as 777 awardees go to training. What matters to them is the manning in the seats 777 folks will come from.

I predict wideboy CA and wide FO seats to be so overmanned that the 777 bid will create few if any secondaries.

I'm not whining, not complaining. Just saying from my perspective things look different.

Spur

In red is the most important word in your quote. This is the min BLG, not the max. Even with a furlough, the max BLG will only be limited by min days off. The only impact to the company is no volunteer--Draft is okay though.

IMHO this provision benefits the company more than the pilots. They cut BLG, reduce overall crew cost, and dont have to dish out furlough pay or incur training/retraining costs.

Enjoy the new year...

Gunter

Excellent point.

My thoughts on the cancellation of the last two bids is this.


Many CA awards were due to forecast retirements. They will be reduced or eliminated. Therefore there will be fewer FO secondaries. The company would also like over 60 guys to go for FO seats for fear they would stay in the back if they don't go for it now.

But first they will redo the DC10 excess. With fewer or no retirements, this may eliminate the need or most of the domestic part of 07-03. 07-03 may have no domestic CA slots at all on it.

Lastly, the company would like at least a few of the over 60 guys to go back up front to CA or more preferably FO since secondaries will be further reduced and the excess on the 727 will be partially reduced.

Gunter

Good point.

Min can go to 48/60.

But the spread has to stay at 13 hrs or less.

fecav8r

Man this is amazing. I just spent the last 3 hours looking for a new TV and dishwasher and in that time you guys have figured out the next 3 years of my life. Thanks, now I don't have to.
How about we all just enjoy our families and the Holiday season and let this all wash out in the next week or so before we start thinking about eating a bullet.

MAWK90

Good idea there. To take it one step further, if we really got to the point of reductions in BLG, there better be NOBODY that has carryover without protecting min-days off. To me, that would be the same as crossing a picket line and the Union needs to adopt that approach. C/O is fine for you if your senior enough when times are good, but when it's coming out of my pocket and the potential is there to put somebody on the street, it's enough.

MAWK90

Understood Gunter. We need to all put our collective heads together and let our elected reps know how we feel.