FDX--Furlough not possible? Think again...
12-30-2007, 03:30 PM
#121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
First of all, I never said that 70K wasn't enough. I said that I didn't think it's a "normal retirement income" that everyone flying at FedEx expects to be making after they retire. As for your parents never making 70K in their life, I suggest that 70K was a lot of money back then, but isn't now. Also, since we don't know what your parents did or how they lived their lives, it's really not reasonable to compare. My father was an attorney, working in New York City, and I don't think he ever made 70K in a year. Doesn't matter. That was then, this is now.
12-30-2007, 03:40 PM
#122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
First of all, I never said that 70K wasn't enough. I said that I didn't think it's a "normal retirement income" that everyone flying at FedEx expects to be making after they retire. As for your parents never making 70K in their life, I suggest that 70K was a lot of money back then, but isn't now. Also, since we don't know what your parents did or how they lived their lives, it's really not reasonable to compare. My father was an attorney, working in New York City, and I don't think he ever made 70K in a year. Doesn't matter. That was then, this is now.
12-30-2007, 03:42 PM
#123
Old P-3 IFE
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 290
Let the young-ins hash it out on this board, by the time they give up, it will be upgrade time!
12-30-2007, 03:44 PM
#124
Old P-3 IFE
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: B744 FO
Posts: 290
"Good Morning. Before my missive, let me just say HOW BOUT THEM N.E. PATRIOTS!"
Congrats..they played well and Eli played like Eli in the second half.
"Now to the business at hand.
OK FDD,
Here are the facts. They are indisputable.
1. After 17 years at FedEx, of which only 4 were as a junior captain, my retirement benefit, as sent to me by the FedEx retirement folks a few months ago is going to be $5400.10 per month. That’s taking the 100% surviving spouse option."
Sounds like a good choice of yours..
"2. After 34 years in the military, the vast majority of which was as a traditional Guardsman, I receive, according to my 1099R, $2282.46 per month, before taxes."
Sounds reasonable. I think that is about what my Dad gets as an 0-5 retiree.
"3. My savings and investments are none of your business.
4. I’m married to the same girl I married back in 1970.
5. I ‘m in the same house we bought 21 years ago, with no mortgage."
Not my business and I never asked you for this info. If it makes you feel better to provide some of it than that's your business.
"6. So excluding savings and investments, the total I can expect to receive, without Social Security benefits, after taxes is about $69,142 a year. Is that a “normal retirement”? I think not."
And you want to lecture us about a feeling of entitlement? I'd say a large majority of people in this world and even country, would feel very grateful for such a blessing. If it's not enough for you though again it's not my business.
"7. Whereas I have felt, for some time now, that the age 60 change was the right thing to do, I have never, not in any way, been an advocate of that change."
Honestly I can't be bothered searching through your 1,209 posts to find somewhere where you did. You sure seem defensive about those that want to stay and fought for the change for someone who was not an advocate. Anyway, I'll just have to take your word for the above.
"8. Prior to my turning 60, I had decided I wanted to continue to work, so I went to the back of the 727. I’ve served in that capacity since June of 2006. If I get back to a left seat, that will be nice, if not, so be it."
Tell that to the guys who may have to take a pay cut or lose their job because you still want to work.
"9. If I decide to stay, it will not be “to prove a point to a guy whose opinion [i] don’t like”, it will be because that’s what I decide is the best thing for me to do. Conversely, if I decide to retire, it will not be because of anything that’s been said on this board, specifically not the name calling, not the implied threats, or the total lack of professionalism shown by the majority of you younger guys. It will be because that’s what I decide is the best thing for me to do."
OK, so you didn't post earlier that guys of a certain opinion makes you want to stay? My bad then because I could have sworn you did. Again. I'll take your word for it.
"Here are my observations. They too are indisputable, because they are my observations."
Yep, we have 1,209 examples of them.
"1. Guys on this board over react to everything, coming up with scenarios that might or might not come to be, and then they embellish them, always with a negative spin. Always.
2. Guys on this board, the majority of them being fairly junior have continued to show a sense of entitlement that is beyond belief. This company is not here for you. We’re here for them. If you don’t like the way you’re treated, or the money you make, leave."
I would love to tell you what to do with your haughty and arrogant opinion here but will instead just say Happy New Year and get the log out of your own eye first. Show me where I have ever complained about working here. At least I only gave you 300 or so posts to check. See my remarks about your hypocritical remarks about people with a "sense of entitlement" above.
"3. There are very few senior guys on this board. Why? I can only suppose that they, after all their years of moving the freight, are sort of less interested in what you have to say."
You are right about them not caring what junior pilots think. Especially those running the union. That has been apparent for the last 2 years at least.
"4. No one likes to be called names. I know I don’t, and I have tried to maintain an even keel when discussing these contentious issues, but a number of you feel that, due in part to the anonymity of the internet, it’s ok to name call and disrespect someone, for no other reason than their opinions differ from yours."
No you would rather tell them they have a sense of entitlement and act like that's not name calling. Whatever man, once again you contradict yourself.
"So, FDD, that's it. I had promised myself not to get embroiled in this age 60 thing, but, being from New York, I have found it difficult to just sit on the sidelines and "listen" to the constant complaints."
Yeah JJ, I remember reading before where you were done with commenting on all this yet somehow you always find a way to deliver another missive from on high and tell us all the way it really is! Let me add to your list above that the junior guys on this board are really tired of being lectured by you. If you don't like what pilots younger than you have to say than feel free to exercise your right to ignore it. In the meantime I think there are a lot of legitimate concerns to talk about that have a negative effect on those junior pilots you "complain" about "complaining" about above. That is what this board is all about last time I checked. If you expect guys like me to just read what you write and bow down at the altar of JJ's truth without responding than I promise you that you will remain disappointed. I really do wish you well with your health JJ and hope your recovery continues to go well. That doesn't translate to accepting all you say as Gospel. I hope you understand..
Congrats..they played well and Eli played like Eli in the second half.
"Now to the business at hand.
OK FDD,
Here are the facts. They are indisputable.
1. After 17 years at FedEx, of which only 4 were as a junior captain, my retirement benefit, as sent to me by the FedEx retirement folks a few months ago is going to be $5400.10 per month. That’s taking the 100% surviving spouse option."
Sounds like a good choice of yours..
"2. After 34 years in the military, the vast majority of which was as a traditional Guardsman, I receive, according to my 1099R, $2282.46 per month, before taxes."
Sounds reasonable. I think that is about what my Dad gets as an 0-5 retiree.
"3. My savings and investments are none of your business.
4. I’m married to the same girl I married back in 1970.
5. I ‘m in the same house we bought 21 years ago, with no mortgage."
Not my business and I never asked you for this info. If it makes you feel better to provide some of it than that's your business.
"6. So excluding savings and investments, the total I can expect to receive, without Social Security benefits, after taxes is about $69,142 a year. Is that a “normal retirement”? I think not."
And you want to lecture us about a feeling of entitlement? I'd say a large majority of people in this world and even country, would feel very grateful for such a blessing. If it's not enough for you though again it's not my business.
"7. Whereas I have felt, for some time now, that the age 60 change was the right thing to do, I have never, not in any way, been an advocate of that change."
Honestly I can't be bothered searching through your 1,209 posts to find somewhere where you did. You sure seem defensive about those that want to stay and fought for the change for someone who was not an advocate. Anyway, I'll just have to take your word for the above.
"8. Prior to my turning 60, I had decided I wanted to continue to work, so I went to the back of the 727. I’ve served in that capacity since June of 2006. If I get back to a left seat, that will be nice, if not, so be it."
Tell that to the guys who may have to take a pay cut or lose their job because you still want to work.
"9. If I decide to stay, it will not be “to prove a point to a guy whose opinion [i] don’t like”, it will be because that’s what I decide is the best thing for me to do. Conversely, if I decide to retire, it will not be because of anything that’s been said on this board, specifically not the name calling, not the implied threats, or the total lack of professionalism shown by the majority of you younger guys. It will be because that’s what I decide is the best thing for me to do."
OK, so you didn't post earlier that guys of a certain opinion makes you want to stay? My bad then because I could have sworn you did. Again. I'll take your word for it.
"Here are my observations. They too are indisputable, because they are my observations."
Yep, we have 1,209 examples of them.
"1. Guys on this board over react to everything, coming up with scenarios that might or might not come to be, and then they embellish them, always with a negative spin. Always.
2. Guys on this board, the majority of them being fairly junior have continued to show a sense of entitlement that is beyond belief. This company is not here for you. We’re here for them. If you don’t like the way you’re treated, or the money you make, leave."
I would love to tell you what to do with your haughty and arrogant opinion here but will instead just say Happy New Year and get the log out of your own eye first. Show me where I have ever complained about working here. At least I only gave you 300 or so posts to check. See my remarks about your hypocritical remarks about people with a "sense of entitlement" above.
"3. There are very few senior guys on this board. Why? I can only suppose that they, after all their years of moving the freight, are sort of less interested in what you have to say."
You are right about them not caring what junior pilots think. Especially those running the union. That has been apparent for the last 2 years at least.
"4. No one likes to be called names. I know I don’t, and I have tried to maintain an even keel when discussing these contentious issues, but a number of you feel that, due in part to the anonymity of the internet, it’s ok to name call and disrespect someone, for no other reason than their opinions differ from yours."
No you would rather tell them they have a sense of entitlement and act like that's not name calling. Whatever man, once again you contradict yourself.
"So, FDD, that's it. I had promised myself not to get embroiled in this age 60 thing, but, being from New York, I have found it difficult to just sit on the sidelines and "listen" to the constant complaints."
Yeah JJ, I remember reading before where you were done with commenting on all this yet somehow you always find a way to deliver another missive from on high and tell us all the way it really is! Let me add to your list above that the junior guys on this board are really tired of being lectured by you. If you don't like what pilots younger than you have to say than feel free to exercise your right to ignore it. In the meantime I think there are a lot of legitimate concerns to talk about that have a negative effect on those junior pilots you "complain" about "complaining" about above. That is what this board is all about last time I checked. If you expect guys like me to just read what you write and bow down at the altar of JJ's truth without responding than I promise you that you will remain disappointed. I really do wish you well with your health JJ and hope your recovery continues to go well. That doesn't translate to accepting all you say as Gospel. I hope you understand..
12-30-2007, 03:44 PM
#125
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Their time is coming, the clock is ticking..... Indy, Philly, Baltimore (especially Baltimore)..... only so many lucky clicks, think they are about out.
Just an observation - 17 years with only four as a Captain. I'm guessing high-five was not maxed. Likely some QOL choices were made, recognizing that retirement income would be affected. Not saying right or wrong, and in fact, as your choice, was right for you. But do recognize that if the preceding statement is true, the #1 number above could be higher. Again, if $$ was the overriding factor.
Just an observation - 17 years with only four as a Captain. I'm guessing high-five was not maxed. Likely some QOL choices were made, recognizing that retirement income would be affected. Not saying right or wrong, and in fact, as your choice, was right for you. But do recognize that if the preceding statement is true, the #1 number above could be higher. Again, if $$ was the overriding factor.
2. You're wrong. With 5&1/2 years sitting sideways, with no crew movement for the first 3 or 4 years, then a year in the right seat of the Boeing, then 7 years in the right seat of the Bus, then the left seat of the Mad Dog. I think I maxed out my pay as much as I could. The whole time I was junior, with the exception of my last year as captain in Anchorage, and of course now, where I still never fly carryover, etc. QOL was never an issue, as I had the same QOL that any junior, commuter guy had, but my family understood that, and never gave me a problem with my being gone on every major holiday for my entire career here.
12-30-2007, 03:51 PM
#126
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Retired
Posts: 3,717
Actually JJ, I agree with you on this point! According to Forbes.com, the MEDIAN income for a family of 3+ is only 46K/yr. That's for the average family with 1+ kids, car payments, mortgage ... you get the idea. So you're absolutely correct, 92K IS NOT a normal retirement! I suspect it's closer to maybe 30K?
http://www.forbes.com/home/economy/2...017median.html
In reply to points 7, 8 and 9 ... In other words, "It's all about you." And that my friend it EXACTLY the point the "young" guys have been trying to make. Thanks for finally admitting it for us. It now is also, "Indisputable." Your word, not mine!
Happy New year to you and your family ...
Mark
http://www.forbes.com/home/economy/2...017median.html
In reply to points 7, 8 and 9 ... In other words, "It's all about you." And that my friend it EXACTLY the point the "young" guys have been trying to make. Thanks for finally admitting it for us. It now is also, "Indisputable." Your word, not mine!
Happy New year to you and your family ...
Mark
Read my post. I wasn't talking about the national average retirement income, I was talking about the average FEDEX pilot retirement income.
As for my points 7, 8, and 9... like I said, those decisions are about me, just like any decision you make about your own situation, is about you.
12-30-2007, 03:52 PM
#127
...Whatever It Is!
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Heck, I was a furloughed F/O at Seaboard and the Chief Pilot said not to worry because some day I would be a Captain earning close to $100,000 a year. He was wrong because not many years later I was a F/O earning more than $100,000 a year. Three years later I was a 727 Captain earning $62,500 a year for 15 nights a month, 4 legs a night.
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