Someone who gets it..
12-21-2007, 01:58 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Actually, I don't know if you can really call me a proponent, as my entire contribution was answering some of the Wilson polls, and getting disgusted at the venom being thrown on this forum by the anti-change, and yes, the pro-change partisans. Threats, insults, and name-calling seem to indicate a lack of anything better to say. In 10 years, when I have to make the decision on retirement (and yes, I think retiring at 60 will still be an option) if someone is calling me the names and using the insults that you and some of your like-minded cohorts have thrown out, I may just stay a few years longer, just out of spite. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at your demeanor here, because you seem fairly normal in person (if you are indeed who I think you are.)
12-21-2007, 05:39 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,199
We need unrelentless vigilance on the health of the A fund at all times.
12-21-2007, 05:56 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 281
Actually, I don't know if you can really call me a proponent, as my entire contribution was answering some of the Wilson polls, and getting disgusted at the venom being thrown on this forum by the anti-change, and yes, the pro-change partisans. Threats, insults, and name-calling seem to indicate a lack of anything better to say. In 10 years, when I have to make the decision on retirement (and yes, I think retiring at 60 will still be an option) if someone is calling me the names and using the insults that you and some of your like-minded cohorts have thrown out, I may just stay a few years longer, just out of spite. Quite frankly, I'm surprised at your demeanor here, because you seem fairly normal in person (if you are indeed who I think you are.)
12-21-2007, 07:01 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: unskilled laborer
Posts: 353
I am anti-change. I will always say that I can't believe enough people took the biggest perk of this job and lobbied to have it tossed out.
BUT - everyone on the list here at Fedex and I guess everywhere else needs to keep some perspective. We have all benefited top to bottom over age 60. Some will now prosper even more from the change. What do I mean? (BOhica must be freaking by now)
The argument is that these older guys kicked everyone out and now sit at the top. True. But all of us move up when someone leaves. Well, take a 10 year wide body FO. Over the last 10 years he has moved up in Seniority by people leaving at 60. Not 20 or 25 years of such movement for sure. Stagnation for a while? Absolutely. But there was some benefit there. It would have been better after 15 years, but he got more benefit than if it happened 5 years ago. Right?
The big losers are those who never got to move up at all and now will stagnate off of the list. None of us FEDEX guys are those people - we have a number and our multiplier is ticking off the years.
The perspective of time will let us know much more than we know today. Relax. Watch the autopilot fly the plane. Of course FH is a jerk despite charming words from JJ. Nobody should gloat like he does. My 2 cents.
BUT - everyone on the list here at Fedex and I guess everywhere else needs to keep some perspective. We have all benefited top to bottom over age 60. Some will now prosper even more from the change. What do I mean? (BOhica must be freaking by now)
The argument is that these older guys kicked everyone out and now sit at the top. True. But all of us move up when someone leaves. Well, take a 10 year wide body FO. Over the last 10 years he has moved up in Seniority by people leaving at 60. Not 20 or 25 years of such movement for sure. Stagnation for a while? Absolutely. But there was some benefit there. It would have been better after 15 years, but he got more benefit than if it happened 5 years ago. Right?
The big losers are those who never got to move up at all and now will stagnate off of the list. None of us FEDEX guys are those people - we have a number and our multiplier is ticking off the years.
The perspective of time will let us know much more than we know today. Relax. Watch the autopilot fly the plane. Of course FH is a jerk despite charming words from JJ. Nobody should gloat like he does. My 2 cents.
12-21-2007, 10:44 PM
#35
On Reserve
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: BOHICA
Posts: 21
I agree ham. I will have no heartburn for those who weren't part of the APAAD movement, or those that aren't rubbing it in our faces. I also will have no heartburn with those that do not have a full retirement from here or the military staying as well. For those that choose to stay, or come back, that have either, or both, I will have very little respect. Heartburn no, but no respect as well. But what the puck, no one really cares about what I think anyway, especially my union leadership.
While I won't waste any more of my time worrying about these guys, I won't waste any more time hoisting adult beverages with them on layovers either. I will continue to admire those that retire with dignity at Age 60 while they still can. Once that changes none of us will have a good choice unless we give even more up to get it. I can live very happily with all that I have said here and with no remorse knowing that no one suffered for what I have gained.
While I won't waste any more of my time worrying about these guys, I won't waste any more time hoisting adult beverages with them on layovers either. I will continue to admire those that retire with dignity at Age 60 while they still can. Once that changes none of us will have a good choice unless we give even more up to get it. I can live very happily with all that I have said here and with no remorse knowing that no one suffered for what I have gained.
12-21-2007, 11:32 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Also, how old is our president? Is he over 60? If so, will he support the 90% of the crowd who'll be hurt by the change or the 10% crowd he belongs to? (I don't know his age)
12-22-2007, 06:04 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 292
That is why we are *****ing! We have to work till 65. Now the "normal" retirement is 65 and if we get out "early" at 60, we will take a huge hit in our pension.
12-22-2007, 06:19 AM
#38
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 617
This change is bad for everyone, except the guys that can fly the extra years under the current CBA. I personally do not think that our current situation will stand the next attack from management and their mongrel lawyers during Section 6.
I do not WANT to work longer (I don't know why anyone does), but I fear that I will have to, just to achieve the same financial outcome I see retired guys getting now.
12-22-2007, 06:26 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 281
I hate to pile on, but I certainly couldn't have said that nearly as well as MemFO.
Those are my fears exactly, and unfortunately the horse has left the barn. Time will tell how bad it is for those of us waiting for our turn at the golden ring.
Those are my fears exactly, and unfortunately the horse has left the barn. Time will tell how bad it is for those of us waiting for our turn at the golden ring.
12-22-2007, 06:29 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
I've been in their shoes. Fortunately, for me, I was young and able to start my career over at FedEx. This legislation will hurt my seniority for the rest of my career. I'm grateful I'm not in their shoes ... We could be in a MUCH worse position (very much worser?) than just whining about slowed career progression.
I'm mildly amused (no not gloating) that when my legacy carrier went T.U. that those same legacy guys weren't the least bit interested in helping us. What? You want us to consider a national ALPA date-of-hire seniority list!
All that said, I will never understand the 60 year old widebody FedEx Captain that has the opportunity to retire at age 60 (will a generous full retirement) and just wants to keep working? They must have a very sad home life.
Go ahead JJ ... flame away.
Mark
