Hey Capts...A little respect?
12-16-2007, 11:57 PM
#31
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
The night the President signed the age 65 bill, I was flying into the hub from an overnight. My Capt and our jumpseater (another senior Capt) were going on and on, laughing about how they get to stick around now and how now they can get more toys. My Capt, who already owns several airplanes, now wants to buy a helicopter so he can land in his front yard of his 3 houses. The other went on and on about his 7 condos and how he'll now buy a couple more airplanes and more property. They were telling me how "lucky" I am to be able to fly until I'm 65 now!
I politely told them I'll be retiring when I'm 55, thank you.
Now, I understand that these guys probably made some great financial decisions earlier in life to get to that point, but, all I was thinking was...jeez, I hope I have enough to everyone a descent Christmas present this year.
If you guys want to laugh and high five each other (they actually high fived each other during the flight) please do don't do it in front of guys like me still on probation who are now going to be 5 or 6 year S/O's
I politely told them I'll be retiring when I'm 55, thank you.
Now, I understand that these guys probably made some great financial decisions earlier in life to get to that point, but, all I was thinking was...jeez, I hope I have enough to everyone a descent Christmas present this year.
If you guys want to laugh and high five each other (they actually high fived each other during the flight) please do don't do it in front of guys like me still on probation who are now going to be 5 or 6 year S/O's
12-17-2007, 01:54 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Personally I didn't want the change until I turned captain myself (at least I'm honest about it).
However, the change is here and even though it sucks for now, the truth is that if I decide to work for another 5 years (I hope I’ll have a choice, but...) my excel spread sheet "tells me" I’ll bring in another million or so for my family and I.
Remember, I might be upgrading 5 years later (who knows) BUT it also means some very nice senior FO earnings for an extra 5 years which frankly beats most major airline captain pay scales. True, I will only 'enjoy' the money for a year or so before I die
however at least the extra earnings will be there for my family to enjoy.I've never been a gloomy type and refuse to be one now. I still believe that this will shake out a little better than most of us think and that overall the cargo outfits will remain the best places to be in the next 5 years but even more in the next 10 or 20 years.
The law is here and there's nothing we can do about it, however maybe we can prepare for the next contract battle by making sure age 60 retirement is still an option WITHOUT an “early retirement” penalty. I also think that the FOs can band together and ask for a larger percentage of pay compared to the captains’ pay based on the slower upgrade. I believe American union is looking into boosting FO pay to 80-85% of captain pay rates versus 60-65% now. Maybe it's feasible, maybe it's not, but it's worth looking into.
So for now my goal is to keep enjoying my job, which I’m doing just as much today as I did prior to 12/13/07…
...I will also try to start eating healthier, exercise more, etc since I might have to keep working a little longer now.
…and of course I’ll keep encouraging my captains to order another supersized burger with extra salty fries for themselves …
As far as some captains talking about their houses, boats, condos, toys, etc right in your faces - don't sweat it, they are just enjoying ‘winning their battle’ which they are entitled to.
It's quite possible though that they just ‘lost the war’ as it's totally pointless to keep accumulating toys, etc if you won't be around to enjoy them. I think most of the senior captains know the statistics and are torn between more money or a longer life after retirement which’s pretty stressful in itself.
Here’s another angle on this…
Now that many, if not all, senior captains will keep making those big bucks for several more years maybe some will decide to show off their generous side even more than before.
Brown aviators are well-known for their generosity when it comes to charities and to helping other UPSers in need. So for example, maybe some will be willing to share their unexpected extra earnings by helping out a new hire battling stomach cancer on $33 an hour even more than before. I mean it in a very positive way and I hope no one misconstrues what I’m trying to say. The outpouring of support has been great so far and I’m just thinking that if I unexpectedly “won” an extra 5 years worth of some great earning I’d gladly donate a few extra bucks to a guy who can’t even pay his bills.
And by the way, I’ve already donated to the cause and will donate more soon…Trust me, if I wasn’t paying off my credit cards which are all maxed out due to the first year pay, I’d donate even more…
If anyone was offended by my way of reasoning here then I truly apologize. I was just trying to turn something that half of our guys view as a positive and the other half as a negative into something all of us could be very proud of - that’s all.
So like I said – you can be a half-full or a half-empty guy/gal – I prefer a full glass of course but in the meantime I’ll stick to my half-full glass of some delicious dark brown ale…
12-17-2007, 03:00 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DC10 Captain
Posts: 284
With all of their "toy" purchases, they will want to fly until 70 when they get to 65. After all that is what this is all about, wanting to make more money to enable spending more money. It's not about "age discrimination." If it were those guys would have been pushing for no age restriction at all, ie fly until you can no longer pass a physical and/or a checkride. I plan to be gone at 55, toys or not.
12-17-2007, 07:56 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
It amazes me sometime how Capt.s forget that they were F/Os once. This probably is a little off the point of your thread, but I always marvel how brand new Capts forget they were F/Os only months before.
Up in ANC, we just sent you a Capt ( 757 ONT), who was a recent upgrade and was nice enough to give me instruction on how to sleep in the crew rest bunk...and how my "technique" for preparing the bunk was all wrong.
Well, back to your thread...but every time I get in the bunk, I'll just "deal with" not sleeping the correct way.
Cheers,
FF
12-17-2007, 08:03 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
This would be on of the "more experienced pilots" passing VERY useful knowledge......
Glad he showed you, so you can get some sleep now. Those long flights must have been very hard not getting any sleep.
12-17-2007, 08:56 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Uhh, I think Congress did this to "us." I didn't see any hoards of 59 yr old pilots storming the capitol, begging to screw the young guys.
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
12-17-2007, 09:04 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Uhh, I think Congress did this to "us." I didn't see any hoards of 59 yr old pilots storming the capitol, begging to screw the young guys.
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
But, I'm with you 100% on the rest of your assessment.
12-17-2007, 10:32 AM
#38
Bourgeoisie
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 787 SO
Posts: 617
Uhh, I think Congress did this to "us." I didn't see any hoards of 59 yr old pilots storming the capitol, begging to screw the young guys.
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
BTW- Your screenname just seems to scream, "whoa is me, life is just not fair." Talk about taking it up the chute!!
Look at it from the other side. You have a great paying career for a long time, whether you decide to stay till 60 or 65. I'd like to be a WB Capt, but if I'm stuck where I am, I'm still making a huge amount of money, compared to most of the people (other airline pilots included) I know. So are you. While things can always be better, life is good, or hadn't you noticed?
Huge amount of money? Where? I don't make here what I made when I lost my corporate job almost ten years ago.
Life is good? No I haven't noticed. Life is life.
12-17-2007, 10:38 AM
#39
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
To be fair, not too long ago many of us were rubbing “salt in their wounds” by ‘predicting’ how this law would never pass or how it would take many years, etc. I never thought this was about age discrimination but rather about money which by the way is perfectly OK in my view as long as one admits it.
Of course it's not about discrimination. I agree with you that it's about money. As long as someone would admit it, I can respect that. It's the people crying "discrimintation" that I can't stand.
Personally, I never really wanted it to change. I would like to take a full retirement at 60 but oh well.
Last edited by Freightpuppy; 12-17-2007 at 10:44 AM.
12-17-2007, 01:56 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
And any long-time FO is making a good amount of money, unless you are spending way beyond your means.
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