Some Critical Age 60 Change Questions
12-14-2007, 10:25 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Sabre 60
Posts: 203
Some Critical Age 60 Change Questions
I have some real critical questions about the age 60 legislation, and what it all means. This is not a complaining thread. There is already one of those out there, and trust me, I am complaining hard core on that thread. This is an informational thread.
The mandatory retirement age was changed to 65. The change IS retroactive is you are currently employed at that airline as a required flight deck crewmember. It is NOT retroactive if you are no longer employed at that airline. Basically, FE’s at FedEx, UPS, Northwest, and other airlines with over 60 flight engineers CAN return to become a captain or a first officer with their accrued seniority. If they are no longer employed at that airline, they can theoretically get rehired, but they would have to be rehired and start with 0 seniority. Fortunately, many of these guys will probably not be rehired at the majors because majors hire “future captains”
At UPS, there are 174 FE’s between age 60 and 65 currently employed.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=19130
Does anyone know how many FE’s between age 60 and 65 are at FedEx?
Does anyone know how many FE’s between age 60 and 65 are at Northwest?
Lets say someone 60.5 years old was an MD-11 captain, and is now a flight engineer? How long can they not fly as MD-11 captain until they are no longer qualified? (ie. Have to be completely retrained, not just the 3 takeoffs and landings in 90 days) Is it 6 months, 1 year, 2 years…?
OPINION Q: At what point do you think your company will decide it is too expensive to retrain the 63, 64 years olds, so they will just get captain pay for working as FE’s? 1 year until 65, 2 years…?
How many company’s contracts define age 60 as the normal retirement age?
I believe Alaska’s contract defines age 60, or 30 years service, as the normal retirement age. Tell us if your airline defines 60 years old as the normal retirement age. If not, what do you think will happen for those who still want to retire at age 60. Will they be penalized?
The mandatory retirement age was changed to 65. The change IS retroactive is you are currently employed at that airline as a required flight deck crewmember. It is NOT retroactive if you are no longer employed at that airline. Basically, FE’s at FedEx, UPS, Northwest, and other airlines with over 60 flight engineers CAN return to become a captain or a first officer with their accrued seniority. If they are no longer employed at that airline, they can theoretically get rehired, but they would have to be rehired and start with 0 seniority. Fortunately, many of these guys will probably not be rehired at the majors because majors hire “future captains”
At UPS, there are 174 FE’s between age 60 and 65 currently employed.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=19130
Does anyone know how many FE’s between age 60 and 65 are at FedEx?
Does anyone know how many FE’s between age 60 and 65 are at Northwest?
Lets say someone 60.5 years old was an MD-11 captain, and is now a flight engineer? How long can they not fly as MD-11 captain until they are no longer qualified? (ie. Have to be completely retrained, not just the 3 takeoffs and landings in 90 days) Is it 6 months, 1 year, 2 years…?
OPINION Q: At what point do you think your company will decide it is too expensive to retrain the 63, 64 years olds, so they will just get captain pay for working as FE’s? 1 year until 65, 2 years…?
How many company’s contracts define age 60 as the normal retirement age?
I believe Alaska’s contract defines age 60, or 30 years service, as the normal retirement age. Tell us if your airline defines 60 years old as the normal retirement age. If not, what do you think will happen for those who still want to retire at age 60. Will they be penalized?
12-14-2007, 10:49 AM
#2
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I believe it's at the 2 year out-of-the-seat point when someone has to be fully retrained.
You'll have to ask someone whose rather high up in management your question about what age is too old to retrain, otherwise you'll only get individual opinions which might or might not mean a thing.
I believe the FedEx contract does not mention age 60, but uses the term "regulated age" instead.
Although I'm sure that the company has spent considerable time and effort in deciding how to implement the age change, they've not shared that with us yet, and so again, we won't really know the answer to your question about penalization for "early retirement."
You'll have to ask someone whose rather high up in management your question about what age is too old to retrain, otherwise you'll only get individual opinions which might or might not mean a thing.
I believe the FedEx contract does not mention age 60, but uses the term "regulated age" instead.
Although I'm sure that the company has spent considerable time and effort in deciding how to implement the age change, they've not shared that with us yet, and so again, we won't really know the answer to your question about penalization for "early retirement."
12-14-2007, 11:19 AM
#3
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Posts: 1,144
Yes, and I think the big questions are: How and when can these guys move back up? Do they have to wait for a vacancy? That is key seeing that most of the current and future vacancies will be in ANC. Or will they be able to bid back to any seat they want? Like you said, will UPS train anyone from the ages of 63 and up. If not you need to look and see how many SO's are ages 60-63.
12-14-2007, 11:46 AM
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12-14-2007, 11:46 AM
#6
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Don't know.. but enjoy your 1.8 years of retirement.
Age at
Retirement-- Average Age At Death
49.9 ------- 86
51.2 ------- 85.3
52.5 ------- 84.6
53.8 ------- 83.9
55.1 --------83.2
56.4 ------- 82.5
57.2 ------- 81.4
58.3 ------- 80
59.2 ------- 78.5
60.1 ------- 76.8
61. -------- 74.5
62.1 --------71.8
63.1 ------- 69.3
64.1 ------- 67.9
65.2 ------- 66.8
Age at
Retirement-- Average Age At Death
49.9 ------- 86
51.2 ------- 85.3
52.5 ------- 84.6
53.8 ------- 83.9
55.1 --------83.2
56.4 ------- 82.5
57.2 ------- 81.4
58.3 ------- 80
59.2 ------- 78.5
60.1 ------- 76.8
61. -------- 74.5
62.1 --------71.8
63.1 ------- 69.3
64.1 ------- 67.9
65.2 ------- 66.8
12-14-2007, 12:06 PM
#8
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
If my numbers are right(coming from 08-01 bid packs): Off the 8 there are 44 Non Bidders and 103 under 63 years of age.....yes that is 103.
From the Classic there were 12 Non Bidders and 28 under 63.
So that is 131 under 63 FE's on property....and a total of 66 NB's from that group. I figured that age 63 would be the cut off since it would be pointless to train someone beyond that and they will all be ANC bound...........
From the Classic there were 12 Non Bidders and 28 under 63.
So that is 131 under 63 FE's on property....and a total of 66 NB's from that group. I figured that age 63 would be the cut off since it would be pointless to train someone beyond that and they will all be ANC bound...........
Last edited by Rocco; 12-14-2007 at 12:22 PM.
12-14-2007, 12:14 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Doggie
Posts: 2,382
If my numbers are right: Off the 8 there are 44 Non Bidders and 103 under 63 years of age.....yes that is 103.
From the Classic there were 12 Non Bidders and 28 under 63.
So that is 131 under 63 FE's on property....and a total of 66 NB's from that group. I figured that age 63 would be the cut off since it would be pointless to train someone beyond that and they will all be ANC bound...........
From the Classic there were 12 Non Bidders and 28 under 63.
So that is 131 under 63 FE's on property....and a total of 66 NB's from that group. I figured that age 63 would be the cut off since it would be pointless to train someone beyond that and they will all be ANC bound...........
It would APPEAR from the law, that you must be an active crewmember to resume a front seat. But I'm certainly no attorney, and I haven't been at a Holiday Inn Express in awhile either.
Pretty grey area if you ask me ...
Later, Brown CC
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