Some Critical Age 60 Change Questions
12-14-2007, 12:25 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Wonder how the No Bidders will be handled ...
It would APPEAR from the law, that you must be an active crewmember to resume a front seat. But I'm certainly no attorney, and I haven't been at a Holiday Inn Express in awhile either.
Pretty grey area if you ask me ...
Later, Brown CC
It would APPEAR from the law, that you must be an active crewmember to resume a front seat. But I'm certainly no attorney, and I haven't been at a Holiday Inn Express in awhile either.
Pretty grey area if you ask me ...
Later, Brown CC
12-14-2007, 12:47 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: MD11FO
Posts: 213
Don't know.. but enjoy your 1.8 years of retirement.
Age at
Retirement-- Average Age At Death
49.9 ------- 86
51.2 ------- 85.3
52.5 ------- 84.6
53.8 ------- 83.9
55.1 --------83.2
56.4 ------- 82.5
57.2 ------- 81.4
58.3 ------- 80
59.2 ------- 78.5
60.1 ------- 76.8
61. -------- 74.5
62.1 --------71.8
63.1 ------- 69.3
64.1 ------- 67.9
65.2 ------- 66.8
UPSFO4LIFE,
Where did you get these numbers? I don't doubt them, just curious about their source....
Age at
Retirement-- Average Age At Death
49.9 ------- 86
51.2 ------- 85.3
52.5 ------- 84.6
53.8 ------- 83.9
55.1 --------83.2
56.4 ------- 82.5
57.2 ------- 81.4
58.3 ------- 80
59.2 ------- 78.5
60.1 ------- 76.8
61. -------- 74.5
62.1 --------71.8
63.1 ------- 69.3
64.1 ------- 67.9
65.2 ------- 66.8
UPSFO4LIFE,
Where did you get these numbers? I don't doubt them, just curious about their source....
12-14-2007, 05:54 PM
#14
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 42
I believe it's at the 2 year out-of-the-seat point when someone has to be fully retrained.
You'll have to ask someone whose rather high up in management your question about what age is too old to retrain, otherwise you'll only get individual opinions which might or might not mean a thing.
I believe the FedEx contract does not mention age 60, but uses the term "regulated age" instead.
Although I'm sure that the company has spent considerable time and effort in deciding how to implement the age change, they've not shared that with us yet, and so again, we won't really know the answer to your question about penalization for "early retirement."
You'll have to ask someone whose rather high up in management your question about what age is too old to retrain, otherwise you'll only get individual opinions which might or might not mean a thing.
I believe the FedEx contract does not mention age 60, but uses the term "regulated age" instead.
Although I'm sure that the company has spent considerable time and effort in deciding how to implement the age change, they've not shared that with us yet, and so again, we won't really know the answer to your question about penalization for "early retirement."
Retirement Dates You may commence retirement benefits on any of the dates described below after you have completed application requirements. Refer to “Making Application for Benefits and When Payments Commence,” page R-21.
Normal Retirement Date Your normal retirement date is the first day of the month coincident with or next following the date on which you attain age 60, after:
The contract stats:
The Company shall continue to provide retirement and related benefits through the Retirement Plans1 and under the terms and conditions of the Retirement Plans, as in effect as of the date of this Agreement, except as specifically provided herein. The terms and conditions of the Retirement Plans, insofar as they affect pilots, shall not be changed, except as provided in this Agreement or by the written agreement of the Association. The Pilot Benefit Book ("PBB") shall be updated in accordance with Section 28.A.7 to reflect changes made by this Agreement and any other changes made pursuant to Section 28.A.5.
12-14-2007, 07:34 PM
#15
Ok, No more sleeping Dog
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11, F/O
Posts: 889
FAASafety.gov Info on Age 60
This was found on the FAASafety.gov board. Hope it's instructive. Cheers
InFO - President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law
Notice Number: NOTC1079
Subject:
President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law, Affecting Pilots Under Part 121
Purpose:
This InFO announces the "Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act" (the Act), effective immediately, December 13, 2007, and highlights key provisions of the Act.
Background:
In November, 2006, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) revised the maximum age for certain pilots in international operations from age 60 to age 65. Until 12/13/07, the United States, an ICAO member state, limited its pilots operating under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121 to age 60. Now those pilots may continue until age 65, as specified in the Act.
Discussion:
Key provisions of the Act include the following:
Directors of safety, directors of operations, chief pilots, trainers, and pilots under part 121 should be aware of the Act and should collaborate immediately in implementing its provisions.
The exact language of the Act can be downloaded at the following public Web site:
http://thomas.loc.gov . In the "Search Bill Text" box click on "Bill Number," enter "HR 4343" and click Search.
An InFO contains valuable information for operators that should help them meet certain administrative, regulatory, or operational requirements with relatively low urgency or impact on safety.
For more information on this and other InFO's please go to the following URL:
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info
InFO - President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law
Notice Number: NOTC1079
Subject:
President Today Signed Age 65 Into Law, Affecting Pilots Under Part 121
Purpose:
This InFO announces the "Fair Treatment for Experienced Pilots Act" (the Act), effective immediately, December 13, 2007, and highlights key provisions of the Act.
Background:
In November, 2006, the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) revised the maximum age for certain pilots in international operations from age 60 to age 65. Until 12/13/07, the United States, an ICAO member state, limited its pilots operating under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR) part 121 to age 60. Now those pilots may continue until age 65, as specified in the Act.
Discussion:
Key provisions of the Act include the following:
. As of 12/13/07, part 121, § 121.383(c), specifying age 60, ceases to be effective.
. A pilot age 60+ acting as pilot in command (PIC) in international operations must be paired with a pilot under age 60 (consistent with the current ICAO requirement).
. In domestic operations both pilots may be age 60+.
. It permits the continued employment of a pilot who reaches age 60 on or after 12/13/07.
. It permits the employment as a new-hire a pilot who reached age 60 before 12/13/07.
. A pilot age 60+ will not be subjected to different, greater, or more frequent medical exams.
. Any pilot age 60+ must hold a first-class medical certificate, renewable on a 6-month cycle.
. Any air carrier employing pilots age 60+ must adjust its training program to ensure such pilots' skill and judgment continue at acceptable levels.
. Any pilot age 60+ must undergo a line check at 6-month intervals.
. For a pilot age 60+ acting as second in command (SIC), a regularly scheduled simulator evaluation may substitute for a required line check.
Recommended Action: . A pilot age 60+ acting as pilot in command (PIC) in international operations must be paired with a pilot under age 60 (consistent with the current ICAO requirement).
. In domestic operations both pilots may be age 60+.
. It permits the continued employment of a pilot who reaches age 60 on or after 12/13/07.
. It permits the employment as a new-hire a pilot who reached age 60 before 12/13/07.
. A pilot age 60+ will not be subjected to different, greater, or more frequent medical exams.
. Any pilot age 60+ must hold a first-class medical certificate, renewable on a 6-month cycle.
. Any air carrier employing pilots age 60+ must adjust its training program to ensure such pilots' skill and judgment continue at acceptable levels.
. Any pilot age 60+ must undergo a line check at 6-month intervals.
. For a pilot age 60+ acting as second in command (SIC), a regularly scheduled simulator evaluation may substitute for a required line check.
Directors of safety, directors of operations, chief pilots, trainers, and pilots under part 121 should be aware of the Act and should collaborate immediately in implementing its provisions.
The exact language of the Act can be downloaded at the following public Web site:
http://thomas.loc.gov . In the "Search Bill Text" box click on "Bill Number," enter "HR 4343" and click Search.
An InFO contains valuable information for operators that should help them meet certain administrative, regulatory, or operational requirements with relatively low urgency or impact on safety.
For more information on this and other InFO's please go to the following URL:
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info
12-14-2007, 09:05 PM
#16
Freightmama!
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: 757/767 FO
Posts: 2,880
12-15-2007, 02:03 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 767 captain
Posts: 2,701
from the ipa bar and grill....
Retiring early means a longer life - an urban myth?
Posted in Mathematics on 22 Oct 2007.
No comments yet
Every now and then you get an email that presents an interesting idea, but
on further thought, you realise there is more to the story. When someone
here in Singapore presented the information as fact in a talk recently, I
thought it needed further investigation.
Apparently there was an actuarial study carried out by Boeing that showed a
strong (negative) correlation between age of retirement and life expectancy.
That is, if you retire early, you will live a long time and if you work
right up to the maximum (65 in many countries), you will die soon after you
retire.
Dr Sing Lin, a faculty member of the King Faud University of Petroleum and
Minerals (Saudi Arabia) wrote about the study in Optimum Strategies for
Creativity and Longevity. He includes tables from the study by Dr. Ephrem
(Siao Chung) Cheng and states:
The study was based on the number of pension checks sent to retirees of
Boeing Aerospace.
People want to believe this kind of thing, so they send it on to their
friends hoping to cheer themselves up.
Citing the article by Sing, this Swivel graph by Emil Valdez shows the
supposedly strong correlation:
Some immediate responses that I had to this story:
a.. Restricted sample: When was the data gathered? How many people were
involved?
b.. Personal opinions: This is not an academic paper by Dr Sing Lin,
rather, it is an opinion piece, and quite possibly wishful thinking. There
are no references given for the data or for anything else mentioned in the
article.
c.. Reasons for correlation: It is possible that those who retire earlier
are wealthier and have better access to higher quality medical care
d.. Stress effects: Perhaps retiring earlier means you are less stressed
and so you live longer.
But the data did not add up. It was too neat and had scant authority. So I
did some digging.
An article in Freiburg-Schwarzwald.de pointed out that the Boeing data is 25
years old. If so, this brings up more issues - how far back does the data
go? What effect does increasing longevity have on the data?
From the Authentic Source
In Boeing's Let's Retire the Rumor about Life Expectancy [PDF] we have the
statement:
There is no correlation between age at retirement and life expectancy of
Boeing retirees.
There is also a chart in that PDF document outlining actual retirement
longevity data from Boeing.
Actually, this graph also needs some interpretation. What does "number
alive" actually mean? If you retired at 50 and it was 30 years ago, then
you could expect that you don't have long to go. If you have only just
retired, you would certainly expect to "be alive". It says "a random
sample" - but is it the same number for each age cohort? And how long ago
did each person retire? Is it also evenly distributed?
Getting back to the main issue, their statement on the background to the
false correlation matter is clear:
The first inaccurate life expectancy chart surfaced in the early 80s, and
versions of it have been floating around for years - almost as an "urban
myth." The Internet now spreads the misinformation farther, faster, and in a
more professional-appearing form. Boeing and many other companies have tried
to dispel the misconception. Unfortunately, the bad news - even though it is
fiction - catches people's attention, while the good news (that Boeing
employees generally live longer than the national average), is accurate but
often overlooked.
Retiring early means a longer life - an urban myth?
Posted in Mathematics on 22 Oct 2007.
No comments yet
Every now and then you get an email that presents an interesting idea, but
on further thought, you realise there is more to the story. When someone
here in Singapore presented the information as fact in a talk recently, I
thought it needed further investigation.
Apparently there was an actuarial study carried out by Boeing that showed a
strong (negative) correlation between age of retirement and life expectancy.
That is, if you retire early, you will live a long time and if you work
right up to the maximum (65 in many countries), you will die soon after you
retire.
Dr Sing Lin, a faculty member of the King Faud University of Petroleum and
Minerals (Saudi Arabia) wrote about the study in Optimum Strategies for
Creativity and Longevity. He includes tables from the study by Dr. Ephrem
(Siao Chung) Cheng and states:
The study was based on the number of pension checks sent to retirees of
Boeing Aerospace.
People want to believe this kind of thing, so they send it on to their
friends hoping to cheer themselves up.
Citing the article by Sing, this Swivel graph by Emil Valdez shows the
supposedly strong correlation:
Some immediate responses that I had to this story:
a.. Restricted sample: When was the data gathered? How many people were
involved?
b.. Personal opinions: This is not an academic paper by Dr Sing Lin,
rather, it is an opinion piece, and quite possibly wishful thinking. There
are no references given for the data or for anything else mentioned in the
article.
c.. Reasons for correlation: It is possible that those who retire earlier
are wealthier and have better access to higher quality medical care
d.. Stress effects: Perhaps retiring earlier means you are less stressed
and so you live longer.
But the data did not add up. It was too neat and had scant authority. So I
did some digging.
An article in Freiburg-Schwarzwald.de pointed out that the Boeing data is 25
years old. If so, this brings up more issues - how far back does the data
go? What effect does increasing longevity have on the data?
From the Authentic Source
In Boeing's Let's Retire the Rumor about Life Expectancy [PDF] we have the
statement:
There is no correlation between age at retirement and life expectancy of
Boeing retirees.
There is also a chart in that PDF document outlining actual retirement
longevity data from Boeing.
Actually, this graph also needs some interpretation. What does "number
alive" actually mean? If you retired at 50 and it was 30 years ago, then
you could expect that you don't have long to go. If you have only just
retired, you would certainly expect to "be alive". It says "a random
sample" - but is it the same number for each age cohort? And how long ago
did each person retire? Is it also evenly distributed?
Getting back to the main issue, their statement on the background to the
false correlation matter is clear:
The first inaccurate life expectancy chart surfaced in the early 80s, and
versions of it have been floating around for years - almost as an "urban
myth." The Internet now spreads the misinformation farther, faster, and in a
more professional-appearing form. Boeing and many other companies have tried
to dispel the misconception. Unfortunately, the bad news - even though it is
fiction - catches people's attention, while the good news (that Boeing
employees generally live longer than the national average), is accurate but
often overlooked.
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